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Thread: major ccd loss

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Weitzel View Post

    Here are links to a google cached version of the article that does not have the names redacted if anyone is interested (don't know how long it will be available)
    (The Snorbert thing piqued my interest...
    http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/1994/1994AXG.html)



    I thought the article was ok. The author was over in Oracle last weekend interviewing beekeepers. She's working on a documentary, and although not an experienced beek, she seemed to have garnered as much knowledge as many of the beeks who actually had bees. She's sincere about the issue, and although she has a clear agenda that's oriented towards a wholistic view of things I thought she displayed a decent understanding of CCD.
    Last edited by Barry Digman; 02-23-2008 at 01:30 PM.

  2. #22
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    Default Losses

    Does anyone know the details of the pollen substitute that was
    used?

  3. #23
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    peggjam writes:
    I would guess that it depends on whether there is anything other than empty equipment left to sell. A queen and package business with no bees to sell would be a hard sell for a prospective seller

    tecumseh sober adds:
    odd how any number of member seem concerned about the empty unused equipment but seem totally unaware of the expertise and knowledge lost when these old hands retire.

    which will go extinct first... the honeybee or the beekeeper?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by soupcan View Post
    I have been on the phone for over the last 2 hours.
    I had no idea that this CCD deal is worse this year than last year.
    When it is all said & done there will be at least 150K hives short in the almonds.
    Every one has the same story.
    Looked good up north, loaded them on the truck & now they ar almost all dead in CA.
    This is from beeks from all across the country.
    Just talked with one of my queen people.
    He is down in Mexico putting on patties.
    50% winter loss in the last 4 weeks.
    This is just nuts.
    Won't be a good nites sleep tonite.
    And yes the story abot the " Big Guy " losses are true!

    Any idea on casualties? The article cited states that Brett Adee sent 36,400 out to the almonds, but the journalist(?) never gave us a count. What have you been able to determine? We were at this guessing game last spring too.

    MM

  5. #25
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    I think this could be pretty important but I think we need to first ask if this has been confirmed as CCD?

    If or when it has been confirmed will we see these hives or equipment available for in depth inspection by the CCD team?

    Last year was the fluke, if this year is as big as the story and as big as Soup can is saying there will be certainly be a paradigm shift in our industry this year.

    I don't think we should be chalking losses up to CCD until we get confirmation. The panic the press will make from this either way will like significantly impact all of us soon. The impact on an already stressed agricultural system could be catastrophic.

    Has anyone considered the possibility this might not be a natural happenstance but some form of agricultural terrorism? Sounds pretty far fetched I know but we as an industry better confirm what is and not be excluding any possibility. As much as last year this seemed like the emporers new clothes if this is confirmed we all better hang onto our hats, Not since the AFB kill has anything like been seen in our industry.

    As a thought in the back of my mind most things come down to some type of money trail. Is there one here?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Digman View Post
    (The Snorbert thing piqued my interest...
    http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/1994/1994AXG.html)
    Barry,

    My 8th grade algebra teacher clipped that Pogo episode from the paper one day and used it in class as a prop (showing my age here). Snorbert Zangox has been a favorite of mine every since. I keep a copy of the clip hanging on the wall in my office.
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  7. #27
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    Such big losses are scary. I thought the small hives (<6 frames) didn't do much good as pollinators? I have about 200 4-5 framers that are not committed, and my broker doesn't seem interested. Should I really be looking to see if somebody wants to rent them for almonds?

    Up in Wasco/Delano area yesterday; just starting to see some early bloom.

  8. #28
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    I would be bypassing the broker and looking around to rent them.I would think that a grower with a choice of no hive verses a 4 or 5 framer would have a simple selection.
    Where there are fruits and nuts there are beekeepers!!!

  9. #29
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    Default Here is more of what I found out!!!!l

    Called our good friend Jim Paysen of JZBS plastics.
    Our family has known Jim for over 25+ years.
    The bottom line isfrom Jim is there is a hell of a mess in the almonds & in the beekeeeping business in general.
    Jim is in his 80's & very very sharp for his age.
    Jim knows darn near evryone in this bee business.
    Yes the big guy has a huge loss as reported.
    He has never seen the good beeks as he knows ( and so have we ) whith this huge problem.
    I have been told of a good number of outfits that have just put stuff in storage untill some one can tell them what is killing the bees.
    This deal is far ranging to say the least.
    So stop & think about this deal, let us take 20 or so of the big guys out of the mix & see what wood ware & other beekeeking items would go to for price.
    We the smaller people depend on the big guys to keep the saw mills running for us to get a really good price on wood & what ever else you can think of in this business.
    Honey prices are moving up at a alarming rate due to the lack of honey in this global market & the poor quality of bees in America.
    Every one needs to get the news meda involved in this deal ASAP.
    There is no way in the world the the number losses we are told of that can be replaced in the next few months.
    As one researcher told me the other day is that " Rich the only thing we at this point that I can find in connecton with this problem is the air the bees & humans breath & human contact with the hives".
    I would ask that we all get a call in to the people at the national level & the press.
    This if just the 1st phase.
    We 1st fought the t/mites then the v/mites & next came the SHB.
    All the above we can see.
    This deal we seem to have no eyes to help us.

  10. #30
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    Well soupcan, I disagree with most you have said.

    Almonds are taking 40,000 hives more this year than last AND still there are SEVEN ads in the modesto bee & FOUR ads in the fresno bee, BEES FOR RENT. Why is that....

    The drop and run guy's from out of state have problem's.

    Those are the same guys that came up with "field run bees" .

    That means.... you move them in the field AND run.

  11. #31
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    "Almonds are taking 40,000 hives more this year than last AND still there are SEVEN ads in the modesto bee & FOUR ads in the fresno bee, BEES FOR RENT. Why is that...."

    Keith

    How long have these ads been running in relation to how long we have known about the one keepers large losses? I would think that if these losses were just discovered recently, then those advertised bees are already rented. Call one of those ads and find out for us.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  12. #32
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    PG,
    those ads are running in todays papers. I also know of 1000 plus hives that are as of yet rented.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    As a thought in the back of my mind most things come down to some type of money trail. Is there one here?
    Absolutely. Chemical companies, land grant colleges, tenure track researchers, private/public "partnering" agreements, pollinators, etc. Each and every one has a vested interest in CCD, and oddly enough, they aren't all the same.

  14. #34
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    Hi Guys,

    This is a devastating blow to those affected. I extend my regards and best wishes to everyone affected. When a beekeeper looses the majority of his hives, it's equally as devastating regardless of the size of the operation.

    Now for my rant.

    CCD is not a new problem. It has been around before mites, before feedlot beekeeping and before migratory beekeeping was common. It has devastated commercial beekeepers on a widespread scale in the past. And although the size of commercial outfits are 10 times the size they were back then, a 90+% loss was as economically devastating then as now. I know because I lost 400 hives/week the same way over 30 years ago.

    And the reason no one knew of a real beekeeper that had it, was anyone who had it and shared the fact was labelded as a PPM and automatically marginalized. Those that had experienced it, saw the same mystifying symptoms as those who have witnessed CCD today. And it didn't take a 'real' beekeeper to know that something very unusual was happening. Only a few researchers took the reports seriously. And, I think they were marginalized as well. Not much money in back then.

    But those who hadn't experienced it 'knew better' than those that had. And the major beekeeping organizations parroted the PPM assessment. I sure don't know why. Maybe to protect the pure honey name.

    Today, it's a little different. More money, maybe? Certainly anyone who's teaching bugs is interested in researching it. Or are at least being interview about it. The same old mantras are being proposed about PPMed beekeepers, that is until a 'real' one gets affected and then it's only inferred. And now everyone, who has any sense is worried, as all those bees camp together in the almonds.

    Good luck to everyone involved. I hope this round of disappearing disease gets the attention it deserves. If the past is any indication, it will disappear and then resurface to surprise yet another round of PPMed beekeepers.

    Regards
    Dennis
    Last edited by BWrangler; 02-22-2008 at 10:47 PM.
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee.
    http://talkingstick.me/category/bees/

  15. #35
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    > Chemical companies, land grant colleges, tenure track researchers,
    > private/public "partnering" agreements, pollinators, etc.
    > Each and every one has a vested interest in CCD, and oddly enough,
    > they aren't all the same.

    Can you attach some specific names and cite their stated interests,
    or speculate about the "vested interests" of each? Any specific
    examples at all here?

    'Cause I can't think of a single person or group that can be accused
    of having a vested interest.

    I've been working with people from each classification listed, and the
    common theme so far, the only common theme I've seen at all has been
    that each has been stealing/embezzling money set aside for other
    purposes to attempt to help out with this CCD thing. They've been
    literally risking being fired or disciplined very harshly for playing games
    with the budgets and the rules of how money is handled.

    Kim recently ranted a bit about how we STILL haven't seen "dime one"
    of any actual allocations of money:
    http://www.thedailygreen.com/environ...-tape-55022202

    It is one thing to sit on the sidelines and critique or deny that there is a
    problem. It is another to talk with the principals, and realize how many of
    them could be summarily fired for their efforts to help us.

    The irony of the conspiracy theorists is they are the ones producing
    the misinformation that causes people to believe in conspiracy theories.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by WG Bee Farm View Post
    BarryW,
    Hey, have we witnessed a morph? Evolution right before our eyes!
    Regards, Barry

  17. #37
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    To start off with I am not trying to downplay any problems facing the industry right now. There are some huge problems facing all of us right now.
    However I don't believe there is a shortage of 150k hives in the almonds right now. There is probably a shortage but not at that level.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Fischer View Post

    Can you attach some specific names and cite their stated interests,
    or speculate about the "vested interests" of each? Any specific
    examples at all here?

    'Cause I can't think of a single person or group that can be accused
    of having a vested interest.
    I suspect your understanding of "vested" is not the same as mine.

    Vested interest is a communication theory that seeks to explain how influences impact behaviors. Coined by William Crano, vested interest refers to the amount that an attitude object is deemed hedonically relevant by the attitude holder (Crano, 1995). In other words, if an attitude object is deemed to have important perceived personal consequences, then that object is of high vested interest. For example, a 30 year old individual is told that the legal driving age is being raised from 16 to 17 in his state. While he may not agree with this law, it does not affect him as much as the 15 year old prospective vehicle operator. This example illustrates the point that highly vested attitudes concerning issues are related to an individual’s point of view of the situation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vested_interest



    Barry Digman has a vested interest in CCD in that he does not want to lose his tiny little apiary. Bayer has a vested interest in that they would like to sell the chemicals that help farmers raise more crops without being accused of being the source of the CCD problem. The Adee's have a vested interest in that they'd like to be able to fulfill their contracts without losing thousands of hives, and the almond growers that they are contracted with would like to make a crop. The folks selling things like MegaBee would like to provide us with at least a partial solution to the nutritional aspect of CCD, which many think is important. University researchers would like to come up with answers, as that's what they're paid to do.

    In short, all of us who are involved in beekeeping have a vested interest in CCD, whether we're hobbiests, pollinators, researchers, or suppliers.

  19. #39
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    I have been informed that alot of the losses in California is probably due to bad weather, and bad foraging conditions which are leading to massive amounts of hive starvations, to those who arnt feeding liquid and protien supplements. Quite unfortunate, it sounds like a tough business in the Almond patch!

    Those losses aside, have there actually been diagnosed signs of CCD losses also there?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  20. #40
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    Ian, there is a team from the Baton Rouge USDA bee lab onsite
    and gathering up samples. There are several interesting cases
    where not only were bees being well-fed, but a slow "spreading"
    of a problem was noted by those who were feeding the hives.

    Yes, a lot of the losses could very well be simple starvation due to
    less-than robust provisioning, a delayed bloom, and bad weather.
    But some of these cases look to be clear-cut cases of classic CCD
    of the sort we have come to dread.

    > I suspect your understanding of "vested" is not the same as mine.

    Your recasting of your comment is noted.

    But I will repeat my still-unanswered question as to who you might
    have spoken with at any time who might be called a "principal" in
    the CCD effort to get your impressions.

    Your use of the term "vested interest" was in direct reply to Joel's
    question about "money", so if you want to now attempt to recolor
    your comments, you'll have to provide more detail as to the specific
    "vested interests" of specific parties rather than offering further
    generalizations.

    I guess you could say that my "vested interest" is in the facts.

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