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Thread: major ccd loss

  1. #1
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    Default major ccd loss

    http://www.thedailygreen.com/environ...monds-55021901 anybody else hear about this one-yesterday when i read this there where names of keepers today the names have been omitted the big lose came from adde honey -is this common knowledge -RDY-B 3-6-08 http://www.vanishingbees.com/blog/
    Last edited by RDY-B; 03-06-2008 at 07:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Boy, that's sad.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  3. #3
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    Default obervation

    The losses are not easy to take, I've been thru this myself, this year and past years.
    I only say the following as my opinion and obsevation.

    Even if we are lossing hives we still need to deliver a quality product, as advertised, to the grower. If the contact is for 6 frames that what should be delivered.

    Unfortunatally some of those hive that were empty and should have stayed at the holding yard were delivered to pollination contacts, I do encourage the growers to check the hives to confirm what they are paying for.

    I looked at 4 sets of 24 hives each and you would be pushing a 2 frame ave. with multiple hives having no queen or a fist full of bees from the unnamed large beek in the lost hills region.

    I hope together we find a method to win against what ever is killing the bees.

    Larry

  4. #4
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    Default

    Maryam, the woman who wrote the piece, was in Arizona for the organic meeting this past weekend. She was interviewing people for her documentary about the vanishing bees. She needs money to finish the project, in case anyone wants to help out.

  5. #5
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    Default

    I didn't realize Kim Flottum had this online article series. Nice! Here's a good article that includes problems researchers are facing trying to address the problem.

    http://www.thedailygreen.com/environ...s-ccd-45013008

  6. #6
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    Default

    BarryW,
    Kim stated that two major queen producers retired, do you or anyone else know who they are.
    I am small compared to some of these keepers, but none the less I have invested what I consider major money in this business; and I am concerned. I suspect everyone on this list is as they should bee.
    Frank

  7. #7
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    Default

    Did they retire and just burn the equipment? What does "retire" mean. It means nothing if they retired but yet passed on or sold the business. Didn't a major company in Hawaii sell out and the owners retired? (OHB bought them) But that could hardly fit into the "loss of 75,000 queens that will now NOT be produced". So the article (from MichaelW) suggests that two queen producers retired and their entire operation now is no longer in existence. Not sold, not passed onto anyone....just gone from the face of the earth. I'd be interested in knowing the details of why they retired in the manner the story suggests.

  8. #8
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    Default

    I had a hard time reading the article. Not just because it describes a saddening situation, but because it isn't very well written. I know that Kim wrote the article after his rather traumatic experience, so perhaps that is why he wrote it with a jumble of sporadic thoughts.

    I respect Flottum's experience and expertise in beekeeping, however, as an editor of Bee Culture I would think that the articles which he writes should have some semblance of order. I can't stand trying to read about something as important as CCD, and having to reread it in order to make sense of the story. Perhaps Flottum should take some journalism classes.

    Examples abound: The lead is a run-on sentence. I think that the editor forgot to place a period in the middle of the lead. Holocaust - did they burn the bees? Mass exodus - ambiguous - an exodus is a mass departure.
    "There was no food for the bees, nothing to forage" - Repeat - if there was no food, I guess logically there would be no forage.

    “Beekeepers are not activists, they’re just going to quietly slip away,”. What a judgmental statement. Apparently the beekeeper that was quoted hasn't logged onto BeeSource to see that we aren't going to slip away without a fight.

    True, perhaps we're not activists, but we're advocates. Activists protest, advocates accomplish.

    MM

  9. #9
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    Default

    Maryam Henein wrote the article, not Kim Flottum. But I tend to agree. I thought, too, that it was poorly written. It certainly didn't seem to fit a logical pattern of organization. And the details were largely lacking. I was left with the impression that the unnamed beekeeper lost 40,000 hives, but I wonder if that's true?

    As far as the beekeeper's statement about not being activists, I think he's probably right. He said it, it was quoted and "attributed" to, well, an anonymous beekeeper, but it is a direct quotation. Likely others have similar thoughts. Whether or not you agree is a matter of opinion.

    But I haven't seen much in the way of "activism" or "advocating" when it comes to CCD. So far as I know, beekeepers are reluctant to admit losses (as demonstrated by the removal of names from the story), federal funding for research is negligible, and beekeepers have not put up money to fund continuing research on CCD.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Interesting the 1st. article written by someone I assume is not a beekeeper and the one item that comes out clear in the story relates to nutritional stress.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Bjorns point of where the equipment ends up and what retirement means is one we need to keep in mind.

    Who will fill this void and Who's next?

    How terrible this must be for the owner, all the employees, not to mention the owner of the crop that did not get pollinated.

  11. #11
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    beekeepers are reluctant to admit losses

    I expect this is because of several reasons...

    1) if they sell bees (hives, nucs, queens etc) they may be afraid of lost business obviously.

    2) they may be worried that their ability to pollinate will be questioned. They'd rather try to make up the losses and not have the farmer know anything may be amiss.

    3) They don't want anyone testing/analyzing their treatment methods for fear they will be found to be using illegal or not

    Not that this hasn't already been discussed but... I can understand beekeepers not wanting their names published.
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  12. #12
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    Default

    You're correct, Kieck. I noticed Flottum's name in the banner at the top of the page, missed the byline by Henein, and attributed the article to Flottum. My apologies to Kim. But, as an editor, he should ask for a complete rewrite.

    I think that the events surrounding CCD are so new, and so mysterious that beekeepers have gotten into the push-pull strategy of tug-of-war with the situation. There has to be some sort of accountability, and understandably, "names have been changed to protect the innocent". Sort of like the analogy where cockroaches have ravaged an apartment building, exterminators are called in to spray apartment after apartment, but the critters keep coming back. Well, there is one holdout renter who doesn't call the exterminator, because she has a "clean" apartment, and might be embarrassed to admit that they are taking up residence in her place.

    Maybe we'd get further in the fight if beekeepers assessed and reported their specific hive management practices. Then we might find one or more common denominators.

    MM

  13. #13
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    "Bjorns point of where the equipment ends up and what retirement means is one we need to keep in mind.

    Who will fill this void and Who's next?"

    I would guess that it depends on whether there is anything other than empty equipment left to sell. A queen and package business with no bees to sell would be a hard sell for a prospective seller.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  14. #14
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    beekeepers are reluctant to admit losses

    I expect this is because of several reasons... -Dan Williamson
    Sure, and that makes sense to me. But that doesn't mesh with "activism" or "advocating change" to my way of thinking. It does seem to fit the "slip-quietly-away" model, in my opinion.

    I can certainly understand beekeepers not wanting their names associated specifically with CCD. But sooner or later we (beekeepers) will have to fish or cut bait. Either we step forward and try to reach some conclusions about the problem, or we continue to deny that "I" have a problem (but "you" might) and wind up fading away.

  15. #15
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    Wow....... I can only imagine. Devestating. In a small way I can
    guess how they feel. I, like many others here, have taken big
    hits. It can (and did for me) knock you off your feet and game.

    Sorry to hear it, sickening really.

  16. #16
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    Default Names not redacted

    Here are links to a google cached version of the article that does not have the names redacted if anyone is interested (don't know how long it will be available):

    For Firefox:
    http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

    For IE
    http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...l=us&client=ie
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  17. #17
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    Thank you, Gene. Easier to read. I'll tell you, reading the redacted article was like reading censored blocks in classified documents. Editors! Geeesh!

    MM
    Last edited by Barry; 02-21-2008 at 05:43 PM. Reason: remove quotes

  18. #18
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    I returned a phone call monday to one of last years large CCD victims, who was riding thru that staging area and taking pictures ,while on the phone.
    You could sense the sickness in his voice from seeing thousands of empty hives setting there,which he said was mind blowing.
    I'm told that the "beekeeper" with the loses is bidding high for any extra bees available to try and fill contracts.
    Where there are fruits and nuts there are beekeepers!!!

  19. #19
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    Ah the wonders of technology and the cache. Looks like Kim edited more than just names. I say he did about as good as you can with the original piece without completely rewriting it. An editor shouldn't rewrite. He could have not posted the piece, but its still important information thats not going to get out otherwise. Until the USDA puts out the promised money into this problem, all we'll have is random investigations whenever someone can squeeze some funds, have a convenient opportunity, or be looking for some other opportunity out of the situation like making a movie about it. To quote Jim Fisher's article last spring,
    “The skilled experts who support
    beekeeping have been victims of
    a ‘Disappearing Disease’ of their
    own. The cause of this disease
    is clear – no one gave a ****
    about bees.”

    If the USDA follows through, I see bee science never getting back to
    the shape it is. With money you can bring in more money, but its
    critical to give the needed boost.

  20. #20
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    Default I think I am SICK!!!!!

    I have been on the phone for over the last 2 hours.
    I had no idea that this CCD deal is worse this year than last year.
    When it is all said & done there will be at least 150K hives short in the almonds.
    Every one has the same story.
    Looked good up north, loaded them on the truck & now they ar almost all dead in CA.
    This is from beeks from all across the country.
    Just talked with one of my queen people.
    He is down in Mexico putting on patties.
    50% winter loss in the last 4 weeks.
    This is just nuts.
    Won't be a good nites sleep tonite.
    And yes the story abot the " Big Guy " losses are true!

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