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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Cooperstown,N.Y.
    Posts
    474

    Default Grooved bars w/ crimp wire foundation?

    Have you ever used the crimp wired foundation with no hooks in a grooved top/grooved bottom frame?

    How did it work out?

    I thought to cross wire, FYI.

    I have been thinking about it, and thought I'd run it by you...

    Thanks,
    Mark

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,950

    Default Yes

    Thousands of times for 38 years, medium depth, deep depth and jumbo depth, all with a full set of cross wires. I only used cleated top bars and hooked foundation early on, found it a unnecessary, a hassle and extra work and a weaker frame. I bought hooked small cell foundation recently because that was all that was available, I cut off the hooks.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mwjohnson View Post
    Have you ever used the crimp wired foundation with no hooks in a grooved top/grooved bottom frame?

    How did it work out?

    I thought to cross wire, FYI. Thanks,
    Mark
    That's all I use. Eliminates the wedge, and nails. Easier to clean out the groove with the tool sold for the purpose, than hassling with wedges, if you want to change the comb. You'll need the tool that Kelley sells for waxing in the foundation with hot wax. Also a hot plate and small double boiler for melting the wax.

    I would cross wire the frames, and embed the wires.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Cooperstown,N.Y.
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Thanks,
    I wasn't sure, last year I tried wax for the first time, with wedge top bars, I'm leaning toward all wax from here on out. Problem is, I already have a lotta GTB/GBB frames that I need to use up, but didn't really want to buy a 25# box just to find out that it's a lousy method.

    Thanks for your tips, if I could pick your brains a bit deeper...

    When you wax the top do you just tack it in 3 or 4 spots, or are we filling in the entire groove, or does it really matter?

    Do you set the foundation to bow in, so that it pushes against the cross wires, before you embed it? That would be better than having the foundation want to pull away from the cross wires, no?

    I guess I'd figure it out, after a few tries, but I was hoping you guy's could save me some R&D, that would be better spent on some R&R...

    Mark

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,950

    Default

    I do not wax mine in, unnecessary and hard to clean during renovation. If the foundation and frames are the correct size there should be no bowing. If properly embedded the foundation will not pull away.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mwjohnson View Post
    Thanks for your tips, if I could pick your brains a bit deeper...

    When you wax the top do you just tack it in 3 or 4 spots, or are we filling in the entire groove, or does it really matter?

    Do you set the foundation to bow in, so that it pushes against the cross wires, before you embed it? That would be better than having the foundation want to pull away from the cross wires, no?

    I guess I'd figure it out, after a few tries, but I was hoping you guy's could save me some R&D, that would be better spent on some R&R...

    Mark
    I run a bead of wax along the entire groove. Only wax the top bar groove. It may not matter, but I do place the bow against the wires.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    I do not wax mine in, unnecessary and hard to clean during renovation. If the foundation and frames are the correct size there should be no bowing. If properly embedded the foundation will not pull away.
    Do you have the tool designed for scraping the wax out of the groove? See page 22-23 in the 2008 Kelley catalog. Cat. # 20. Works great. Even better if you dip the top bar in hot water for a bit, to soften the wax.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,950

    Default

    [QUOTE=Michael Palmer;292257 even better if you dip the top bar in hot water for a bit, to soften the wax.[/QUOTE]

    Or play your torch/heatgun over the groove

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Cooperstown,N.Y.
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Thanks guy's,
    You've convinced me to give it a shot...and taught me just enough to be dangerous...

    Mark

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    You'll need the tool that Kelley sells for waxing in the foundation with hot wax. Also a hot plate and small double boiler for melting the wax.
    An electric potpourri simmerer works good for melting the wax. You can get one which will allow easy adjustment of the temperature according to how fast or slow you work your wax once it's in the wax tube fastener. (Hotter wax takes longer to set up, melted wax that is cool sets up more quickly.)

    You can get a simmerer at Target.

    http://www.target.com/Aroma-Electric...lectric&page=1

    Dadant has the fasteners as well.

    https://www.dadant.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=231

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