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  1. #1
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    Smile Home Made Pollen Patties Fyi

    FYI
    This is my formula:

    1.0 One part BevSweet that is 10% diluted with water for ease of pumping.

    2.0 One part dried pollen.

    3.0 one ten pound bag of C&H cane sugar which I think is better than sugar beet.

    Mixing:
    1.0 Mark & fill a 5 gallon bucket ,at the one part measure, with the syrup.

    2.0 Pour the dried pollen over the top of the syrup.

    3.0 Mix the pollen into the syrup. I use a plastering mixer and a heavy duty 1/2" variable drill on very slow rpm. The pollen will mix and then float on top. Mix slowly a few times and let it set so that the pollen can absorb the moisture in the syrup.

    4.0 Pour the ten pound sack of C&H cane sugar on top of the mix.

    5.0 by hand, push the mixer up and down to get the sugar into the bottom of the mix. Or, just run the mixer on very slow and push it into the sugar to get it incorporated.

    6.0 Let the mix set over night and use accordingly. If the mix is too runny ad more sugar or a dry pollen substitute. Soyflour will work too.

    7.0 Place the pollen patties between wax paper and place over the brood nest.

    8.0 The BevSweet syrup is highly attractive to bees and the granulated sugar was used to absorb moisture

    9.0 The runny mix can be placed in food trays with a low rim and BevSweet can be poured over the top.

    10.0 If you eliminated some of the granulated sugar you can smear the mix into empty drawn out combs and place it next to the cluster.
    The bees wil be very thankful

    11.0 The above information can be used as a hot shot early feeding followed by commercial patties.
    Once the bees start brooding up they will take the commercial patties.

    12.0 The total mix will be close to 5 gallons and that will make a lot of pollen patties.
    13.0 Store the mix in a cold place.

    Hope this is helpful,
    Ernie
    Lucas Apiaries
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  2. #2
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    Default

    hey BEES4U where can you buy BevSweet?

  3. #3
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    Auburn, AL USA
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    Lightbulb Reverse the drill

    If you want the sugar to move to the bottom after you'ved poured it in on top, simply reverse the drill.

  4. #4
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    Smile hey BEES4U where can you buy BevSweet?

    We bought ours from Sweetner Products in Vernon, Los Ageles.
    Here is their URL:

    http://www.sweetenerproducts.com/sp/start.asp

    They delivered it to the ranch and pumped it into our storage tank.
    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  5. #5
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    Smile Pollen paste/patties

    I added 8 more pounds to the mixture to get rid of the runny consistency.
    Or, add dry pollen substitute
    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  6. #6
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    Default

    Why do you think Cain Sugar is better than Beet sugar?
    This is the condensed molecular formula for cain sugar
    C12-H22-O11

    And Beet sugar

    C12-H22-O11

    They are both the exact same thing. Sucrose which is a disaccharide made up of Glucose and Fructose.

    Honey only contains Fructose.

    The only difference that I know of is that beet sugar is produced here in the USA and Canada under fair employment conditions and the magority of cain is imported from little countries who use slave and child labor to produce it.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  7. #7
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    Default

    That and the tests I've seen show that the bees prefer beet sugar...

    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  8. #8
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    Seldom do I disagree with Michael Bush, but on this one topic I have to differ.

    I believed for years that there was a difference between beet and cane sugars. I even believed that I could TASTE a difference between the two!

    But, with a metric TON of research, I've come to realize that they are THE SAME. There is NO difference between the sucrose molecules of cane and beet sugars. None.

    And, with the benefit of this research a funny thing happened... the two started TASTING the same to me. (Knowledge is a strange thing, no?)

    DS

    (PS. Sorry MB! I'll agree twice with you on the next thing, mmm'kay?)

  9. #9
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    Smile Cane vs Beet Sugar

    Pure cane sugar is not processed like beet sugar.
    I may be a little old fashion. Run this past your grand parents and see what their reply is.
    Pour out two samples and see which one is more clear and which one is tinged yellow.
    The molecular formula has nothing to do with my choice. That sugar beet has to go through a multitude of chemical work to get into the sack.
    In the good old days the beets were hand thined with a short handeled hoe

    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  10. #10
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    Smile ooppps

    mix the sugar in a good source of water and then do a comparaison
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  11. #11
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    Smile Sucrose Molecular Formula

    C6 H12 O6
    It's a simple 6 carbon sugar.
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  12. #12
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    Smile Cane sugar vs beet sugar web search

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=ut...%20sugar&type=

    Now you have some reading material.
    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  13. #13
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    Smile good reading for a warm spring night,71 degrees

    Article:SUGAR, SUGAR / Cane and beet share the same chemistry b:/c/a/1999/03/31/FD91867.DTL
    Article:SUGAR, SUGAR / Cane and beet share the same chemistry b:/c/a/1999/03/31/FD91867.DTL


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    SUGAR, SUGAR
    Cane and beet share the same chemistry but act differently in the kitchen
    Miriam Morgan, Chronicle Assistant Food Editor

    Wednesday, March 31, 1999

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    Carolyn Weil and her crew at The Bake Shop in Berkeley were hard at work one morning, boiling down large pots of sugar syrup to make buttercream for the day's buns, cakes and confections.

    It was a task the staff had done hundreds of times. But this morning the normally silky syrup crystallized into large, chunky granules.

    Weil tossed it, along with plans for most of the baked goods she wanted to sell that day.

    Not happy with a day's work and income wasted, Weil investigated, checking her equipment and ingredients and determining the one variable.

    Sugar.

    Weil's supplier had substituted another brand and, as it turns out, another type of sugar altogether. Weil thought she was getting cane sugar, but instead she got beet.

    Despite what sugar industry officials claim, beet and cane sugar are not alike. And the sugar industry isn't bothering to tell.

    The labels of most brands of sugars on supermarket shelves neglect to say whether what's inside is cane or beet. In some brands, the contents can vary from day to day.

    The Chronicle tested and blind- tasted creme brulee, cookies and cakes made with beet and cane sugar and found that indeed there is a difference. In all cases, the products made with cane were superior.

    However, many in the sugar industry disregard such results, because the conventional wisdom is that beet and cane are the same -- both types are sucrose and chemically identical.

    NOT QUITE EQUAL
    It's true that both kinds are sucrose, but only 99.95 percent, and that minuscule 0.05 percent -- made up of trace differences in minerals and proteins -- can have an effect.

    Much of the 0.05 percent difference comes from the fact that cane and beets are two different plants altogether. Beets are a root, growing below ground; cane is a grass, waving in the breeze. ``That alone can account for mineral profile and content differences,'' says Charles Baker, vice president for scientific affairs for The Sugar Association, a nonprofit group focusing on sugar's role in diet and health. Other variations are the result of processing.

    The beet versus cane controversy is a new development. Cane was once the dominant sugar in U.S. markets, but within the last few years beet has taken the lead. Beet now accounts for 55 percent of the 10 million tons of refined sugar consumed in the country each year. And, according to Ben Goodwin, executive manager of California Beet Growers Association, the percentage is expected to grow.

    One reason is that beet sugar is generally cheaper to produce. It requires just one refining process at a single plant. Traditional cane refining demands two processes at two different facilities.

    Beets can also thrive in a wider range of climates. This large, homely root -- not anything like a regular beet -- is cultivated in 12 states; cane grows in just four. And while total U.S. cane and beet acreage has declined dramatically over the last few years, cane has dropped most precipitously. Hawaii alone has lost more than 60 percent of its cane fields over the last five years -- victims of urbanization and conversion to better-paying crops like macadamia nuts and coffee, says Roehl Flores , director of marketing for C & H Cane Sugar Co.

    Many in the industry continue to dispute the signifigance of the shift from cane to beet.

    ``I can't tell any difference, and I don't think anyone else can,'' says Joseph Terrell, director of public affairs for the American Sugar Alliance, a trade association. ``The difference is where it is grown and some of the processing, but once it becomes sugar, there's no difference.''

    But others see disaster looming on the horizon. Marion Cunningham, The Chronicle's ``Home Cooking'' columnist and author of the ``Fannie Farmer Cookbook,'' says the shift from beet to cane endangers some traditional American recipes.

    ``It matters in recipes for baked goods like angel food cake. It just isn't right with beet sugar. Lazy Daisy Cake, a wonderful old sponge cake from the past, is a real problem when it's made with beet sugar. It's coarse. All of those types of recipes are different.''

    BROWN-SUGAR DILEMMA
    Brown sugar can be a particular problem because of the way it's made.
    Brown cane sugar -- a combination of sugar and molasses, both inherent in the sugarcane plant -- is produced naturally as part of the process of refining white cane sugar by the traditional method, crystallization.

    Brown sugar from C & H Sugar Co. and other cane refiners uses the process, but beet sugar is different. It's made by refining the sugar all the way to the final white granular stage, stripping off all the molasses because beet molasses is unfit for human consumption (it's recycled as cattle feed). Then cane molasses is added back into the sugar through a process called ``painting.''

    Painting coats the granules but does not necessarily penetrate them -- the molasses can sometimes be rubbed right off.

    As with white sugar, these different types of sugars act differently in the kitchen.

    PROOF IS IN THE BAKING
    The Chronicle Food staff baked five batches of bar cookies in our test kitchen, each using a different brand of light brown sugar. Tasters didn't know which was which. The cookies made with cane were far superior in taste and texture to those made from beet (see related story).

    We then made a second batch, using just one brand of sugar -- C & H Light Brown Sugar -- to see if results would be consistent between different packages. We used a new bag, right off the store shelf, and a partly used one that had been stored in a home pantry for several weeks. Again, there were differences, but they were slight compared to the ones in the first tasting.

    Moisture differences, industry experts say, may account for the variation in both instances.

    The effect is less dramatic with white granulated sugar.

    ``I'm sure I've used beet sugar for baking cakes, and there have not been any problems that I know of,'' says The Chronicle's baking columnist Flo Braker.

    However, when we baked four versions of her Butterscotch Pound Cake -- using white granulated beet sugar, white granulated cane, light brown beet and light brown cane -- the differences in crumb texture, appearance and flavor were apparent, although subtle (see related story).

    They weren't subtle in creme brulee, however. In our testing of white beet sugar we found that it refused to caramelize on top (see photo on cover page).

    We prepared several ramekins of creme brulee, topping them with either beet or cane granulated sugar. When caramelized with a small blow torch -- the traditional way of browning the topping -- the cane sugar became brown and bubbly and the beet burned in seconds.

    These are reasons that some professionals specify a type or even a brand of sugar. Because of her own experiences at The Bake Shop and as a cooking teacher, Weil always requests C & H. In fact, Weil has become so devoted to the brand that she became a spokesperson for the company after research for this story began.

    San Francisco confectioner Joseph Schmidt, nationally renowned for his chocolate truffles and other candy, also prefers cane sugar. ``I always order C & H,'' he says. ``When I make caramel, it seems to be cleaner. And it `snaps' better when I make brittle and things like that.''

    Most manufacturers who specify a type or brand of sugar will not reveal what it is because their recipes are proprietary. But C & H's Flores says that some caramel popcorn and cinnamon roll producers are asking for his company's brown sugar because of its molasses content and uniformity.

    Consumers, however, don't have the luxury of knowing what they're getting. Labeling law doesn't require a cane or beet designation. C & H is the only mass-market producer to do so; other refiners decline. The question is why.

    MORE THAN MARKETING
    The Sugar Association's Baker suggests that some manufacturers may consider the beet or cane designation simply ``a marketing tool.'' Goodwin of the state's beet growers' association says he's puzzled.

    ``I don't know why beet sugar producers don't label their sugar.'' He theorizes that perhaps beet producers can't compete with the ad program of a company like C & H, which has been touting its ``pure cane'' product for years.

    ``Cane sugar has a long tradition and beet sugar is starting from scratch,'' he says. ``I guess the beet sugar people are able to sell the product through other channels without building consumer loyalty.''

    But Cunningham argues that the source should be on the label regardless.

    At the very least, she says, ``people need to know what they're getting. Otherwise they'll be frustrated. They won't understand why things are turning out the way they are.''


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    COOKS, TASTERS PUT SUGAR TO THE TEST
    The Chronicle Food staff baked five batches of the Brown Sugar Walnut Squares recipe on this page, each using a different brand of light brown sugar. Tasters didn't know which was which when they sampled. Here are our results:

    -- Best Yet (beet sugar). Cookies were very chewy, with unpleasant grainy texture and brittle crust.

    -- Springfield (beet sugar). These cookies had a datelike ``dark, sticky'' flavor, with a very crunchy top and bottom and lots of separation among top, interior and bottom.

    -- Safeway (cane sugar). Softer and moister than Best Yet and Springfield, not as sweet, clean tasting with no date flavor, lots of nut flavor and a buttery quality and uniform texture. It was some tasters' favorite.

    -- C & H (cane). More depth of flavor than Safeway, with a hint of molasses, most uniform texture and golden-brown color, no separation. Many tasters' favorite.

    -- Lady Lee/Lucky (unknown source). Dark, dense, sticky, with a raisinlike texture, red-brown color and distinct separation among top, interior and bottom.

    We also baked four batches of Butterscotch Pound Cake, each using a different sugar.

    -- Spreckels white granulated (beet). Pleasantly crunchy top; relatively coarse, dry crumb, yet gummy when chewed. Very sweet.

    -- C & H white granulated (cane). Finer, more even texture than Spreckels, with moister crumb and better flavor. Less sweet.

    -- C & H light brown(cane). Nice flavor and texture, more golden than first two cakes.

    -- Springfield light brown (beet). Top is crunchier than C & H, but appearance and flavor not significantly different.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    WHICH SUGAR IS BEET, WHICH IS CANE
    For the typical consumer buying sugar off the grocers' shelf, economics rather than performance determines what they will get. ``It's based on price from the producers,'' says Judie Decker, spokeswoman for Lucky Stores, Inc. Lady Lee and Lucky, Lucky's house brands, can be cane one time, beet another, she admits.

    ``We buy from C & H and from Holly. If the supplier is Holly, it's beet sugar. If it's C & H, it's cane. It's random. We never know ahead of time.'' Lucky does not specify either cane or beet on the label.

    On the West Coast, Spreckels, with factories in Woodland and Mendota, and Holly, with a plant in Tracy, manufacture beet sugar and sell it under the Spreckels, Albertson's, Best Yet and Springfield labels.

    Spreckels and Holly are owned by Imperial Holly of Sugar Land, Texas. C & H, with a sole refinery in Crockett, is the only cane producer on the West Coast. C & H also produces cane sugar for the Safeway label found in Northern California stores. Safeway label brown sugar in Arizona and the Pacific Northwest is beet sugar produced by Imperial Holly, according to Bob Baldwin of Imperial Sugar Co. in Tracy.

    Domino, another cane brand, is scarce in the West.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BROWN SUGAR WALNUT SQUARES
    These chewy cookies show off the flavor of brown sugar. The Food staff baked several versions with different brands of brown sugar, finding each was very good but cane sugar produced the most even texture and best flavor.


    INGREDIENTS:
    -- 1 cup brown sugar

    -- 1 teaspoon vanilla

    -- 1 egg

    -- 1/2 cup all-purpose flour

    -- 1/4 teaspoon baking soda

    -- 1/4 teaspoon salt

    -- 1 cup coarsely chopped walnuts

    INSTRUCTIONS: Preheat the oven to 350 degrees. Coat the sides of an 8-inch square pan with cooking spray and line the bottom with parchment.

    Combine the sugar, vanilla and egg in a mixing bowl, stirring until smooth.

    Combine the flour, baking soda and salt in a separate bowl. Add this to the sugar mixture, stirring well. Stir in the walnuts. Scrape the batter into the prepared pan, smoothing the top lightly.

    Bake for 18 to 20 minutes, until lightly golden.

    Let cool in the pan, then remove and cut into 16 squares.

    Yields 16 bar cookies.

    PER COOKIE: 115 calories, 3 g protein, 17 g carbohydrate, 5 g fat (0 g saturated), 13 mg cholesterol, 55 mg sodium, 0 g fiber.


    BUTTERSCOTCH POUND CAKE
    This recipe from The Baker columnist Flo Braker is a nontraditional pound cake because it is baked in a tube pan. You may substitute white sugar for the brown, if you like; if you do, omit the baking soda. The cake will have a slightly more delicate crumb and lighter color.


    INGREDIENTS:
    -- 3 cups unsifted all-purpose flour

    -- 2 teaspoons baking powder

    -- 1/4 teaspoon baking soda

    -- 1/2 teaspoon salt

    -- 8 ounces unsalted butter

    -- 2 cups brown sugar

    -- 3 large eggs, whisked to combine

    -- 1 cup milk

    -- 1 teaspoon vanilla

    INSTRUCTIONS: Have all ingredients at room temperature. Adjust rack to lower third of oven; preheat oven to 350 degrees. Grease and flour a 10-inch tube pan or other 12-cup decorative tube pan. Sift the flour, baking powder, baking soda and salt onto a sheet of wax paper.

    Using an electric mixer, preferably with a paddle attachment, cream the butter at medium speed until it is smooth and creamy.

    Maintaining the same speed, add the sugar in a steady stream. When all the sugar has been added, stop the machine and scrape the mixture clinging to the sides of the bowl into the center of the bowl.

    Continue to cream at the same speed for 4 to 5 minutes, or until the mixture is very light in color and fluffy.

    With the mixer still on medium speed, pour in the eggs, cautiously at first, tablespoon by tablespoon. If at any time the mixture appears watery or shiny, stop the flow of eggs, and increase the speed until a smooth, silken appearance returns. Then decrease the speed to medium, and resume adding eggs.

    Continue to cream, stopping the mixer and scraping the sides of the bowl occasionally.

    When the mixture looks fluffy, white and increased in volume (adding the eggs and incorporating them into the mixture takes 3 to 4 minutes), reduce the mixer speed to low. Add the flour mixture in 4 additions alternately with the milk in 3 additions. Scrape the sides of the bowl often, and mix until smooth after each addition. Stir in the vanilla at the end. Spoon the batter into the pan and spread it level.

    Bake for 55 to 65 minutes, or until a wooden toothpick inserted in the center comes out clean.

    Place the pan on a wire rack to cool for 10 minutes. Invert the cake onto a rack, and cool completely before slicing thinly with a serrated knife.

    Serves 16 to 20.

    PER SERVING: 245 calories, 3 g protein, 35 g carbohydrate, 11 g fat (6 g saturated), 58 mg cholesterol, 124 mg sodium, 0 g fiber.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  14. #14
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    Whoa!

    Talk about being inundated with a ton of facts that CLOUD the issue!

    If you read the reports that you've so generously included, you'll see that the industry experts can't tell the difference between white, granulated beet and cane sugars. As was mentioned... sucrose is sucrose, save for 0.05%, which could be dirt or minerals on the grasses and roots themselves.

    But, you're really clouding the issue and helping to mislead people when you start talking about BROWN sugar. There isn't ANYONE who thinks feeding brown sugar to their bees is a good idea, whether it's from cane or beet sugars. And THAT'S where a lot of your data falls apart. (Remove the references about BROWN sugar, and the included report gets AMAZINGLY short and to the point that white cane and beet sugars are the same.)

    For instance, a cook cites that her "Lazy Daisy Cake" doesn't come out right? If you look up that recipe, it's made with a broiled BROWN sugar icing; not white granulated sucrose.

    Need more evidence that you're not being fed good data? Creme Brulee won't brown with white sugar? No kidding. That's probably why most recipes tell you to use either Sugar In the Raw, or Light BROWN sugar, neither of which you'd want to feed your bees.

    The two other recipes you've included at the end ALSO use BROWN sugar.

    The Breakdown
    There is definitely a difference between Brown sugars and White granulated sugars. They are both produced by adding back in contaminates that are removed from the refining process. Likewise, those contaminates will lend some odd flavors and characteristics to baked goods made with them. But WHITE GRANULATED SUCROSE is all the same. Sucrose, is sucrose, is white granulated sugar, whether it's from beet or cane.

    And we all know NOT to feed bees brown sugar or raw sugar.

    DS

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    C6 H12 O6
    It's a simple 6 carbon sugar.
    Ernie

    You may want to check your source.....you posted only half of the formula for sucrose. Sucrose is two part glucose and fructose together....you only posted the glucose part.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  16. #16
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    Smile What Is Sucrose?

    Thank you for your answers.
    Words in bold type are defined in the glossary


    Sugar, or to give it its proper term sucrose, is the most plentiful and the most economic sweetener in use in Ireland today. The crystals formed during the refining process are over 99% pure sucrose. While the same sucrose can be found in many fruits and vegetables, it is only in sugar beet and sugar cane that it is found in sufficient quantity for economic extraction.

    WHAT IS SUCROSE?

    Sucrose is a disaccharide, a combination of the two monosaccharides, glucose and fructose. When eaten sucrose is broken down to glucose and fructose in the intestine and these two simple sugars are readily absorbed into the bloodstream. Most of the fructose is converted into glucose in the liver. Like all carbohydrates, sucrose is ultimately used by the body as glucose for energy.

    DIFFERENT FORMS OF SUCROSE

    The term sucrose encompasses a number of different types of white, raw and brown sugar. All are excellent sources of carbohydrate energy. There are no significant nutritional differences between them.

    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    When eaten sucrose is broken down to glucose and fructose in the intestine and these two simple sugars are readily absorbed into the bloodstream. Most of the fructose is converted into glucose in the liver. Like all carbohydrates, sucrose is ultimately used by the body as glucose for energy.

    Ernie
    I am not all brushed up on bee digestion, but am pretty sure that this does not apply.
    Seeing as honey only contains fructose I would guess that the bees either do not use the glucose or they convert it to fructose. The lack of digestion problems when feeding bees sucrose make me believe that they convert the glucose to fructose. Maybe they are capable of digesting sucrose as is without conversion?
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  18. #18
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    Big Grin

    My bees have been complaining that their cookies haven't been turning out, and I've found several tiny burnt creme brulees discarded outside of the hive, so I guess I'll be feeding cane sugar from now on.

  19. #19
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    Okay... that last one made me laugh out loud. Thanks.



    DS

  20. #20
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    Do you believe that your formula is better than what's available from commercial sources of pollen sub? Is it less expensive and just as good?

    A friend of mine told me about a study of the commercially available pollen substitutes and one beekeeper produced version. I forget which commercial product tested best. The non-comm product didn't even get off of the base line.

    Not to put down your efforts, but what makes any of us think that we can do something like producing a better pollen substitute than what those who make a living doing so can make? Just curious.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

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