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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Bow, NH
    Posts
    93

    Default nails or staples?

    Here's how it started. Last week my wife ran over my compressor with her car. Sears was advertising a sale (there's something you don't see every day. Oh, wait a minute. You do see that every day. Sorry.) So I drove over to buy a new compressor. That's when the light went on. Instead of hammering in the nail while assembling frames, I could be shooting them in with a nailer.
    Or better yet, a stapler. So here's the question. Which is better nails or staples? The air tool is a foregone conclusion.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Jackson, MO
    Posts
    1,883

    Default

    I mulled this same question myself and went with a brad nailer that handles nails from 5/8" up to 1-1/4" It's an electric model. I think I paid around $50 to $60.

    I wanted the versatility in case I wanted to nail something else. But you know what? The only thing I use my brad nailer for is frames. I could have gone with the stapler. I think I'd ask myself what length of nail/staples my application called for, then buy the tool that best uses those nails/staples. Some tools have limits as to which size/style they'll handle.

    Grant
    Jackson, MO http://www.makingplasticframeswork.homestead.com
    Beekeeping With Twenty-five Hives: https://www.createspace.com/4152725

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Greenville, MS USA
    Posts
    36

    Default nails or staples

    I use to use a brad nailer and found that the frames come apart too easily. I now use a crown air nailer and it is the very best. The frames are together so well that if you pull on the top bar and the bottom bar in opposite directions you will break the bottom bar before it comes loose.
    I use a frame rig that I made so I just pop them into the super 10 at a time.
    Last edited by YellowBee; 01-23-2008 at 08:00 AM. Reason: spelling

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Northern VA USA
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YellowBee View Post
    I now use a crown air nailer and it is the very best.
    Does a Crown Air Nailer shoot a staple or a nail? I'm guessing a staple. What length staple are you using?

    Do you use glue in addition to the nails/staples?

    Thanks.
    Matt

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Boothwyn, PA
    Posts
    13

    Default

    From a Michael Bush post.

    I bought a 1/4" crown stapler from Walter T. Kelly, but you can buy them at any lumber yard.

    I use 1" staples for the frames. I also have them all the way from 1/4" to 1 1/2". I use the 1 1/2" to put boxes together. I should screw them (I used to) but the stapler is so fast and handy. I use the 1/4" for putting screen on bottom boards etc. I have 1 1/4" for nailing cleats on the sides of boxes (1 1/2" on the ends) because 1 1/4" won't stick through two 3/4" boards. I use the stapler a lot.

    I use exterior wood glue like Elmers exterior carpenter glue or Titebond.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lake county, Indiana 46408-4109
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    I use a 1/4" crown stapler for frames, I had the stapler before bees but now have 2.

    It is a staple not nail.

    I use 1/4" X 3/4" for frames NO glue some guys use glue also.
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Wheatfield, IN
    Posts
    2,069

    Default

    Go with a narrow crown stapler. Its essentially the same as driving 2 brads into the frame at the same time but less likely to come apart as brads have very little head on them.

    I glue and staple. I put 10 staples and glue into every frame. Overkill... yeah... but I'm ok with that!

    500 frames done... 1000 frames yet to go!
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,207

    Default

    I use a brad nailer. I don't have a problem with nails pulling. The trick is to shoot them at right angles to the direction of the pull. And use glue, the nail is just a clamp until the glue dries. This shows how I nail, 4 nails per frame and done. The joints are pinned.
    http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Northern VA USA
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    And use glue, the nail is just a clamp until the glue dries.

    That makes good sense to me. For those of you that use nails/staples, do you have issues with the fastener rusting? I suppose the fasteners used on the boxes would likely get painted over and protected. What about moisture in the hive and any effects on the fasteners used on the frames? Do they tend to rust?

    Or is all of this moot because the fasteners are stainless or use some other exterior coating?

    Thanks!
    Matt

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sawyer, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,118

    Default

    If you have been hammering them in by hand and you try a air nailer,
    (I use 18ga. brad nails) you will never go back. The time and ease it takes to assemble equipment using an pneumatic verses a hammer and elbow grease is like racing a Conestoga wagon verses the Ami-track.
    I havenít used staples but think they would work good on frames. Donít forget to use wood glue.
    The Busy Bee teaches two lessons: One is not to be idle and the other is not to get stung.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    North Bend, OH, USA
    Posts
    273

    Default

    Harbor Freight

    They have a 18ga brad/ 1/4" stapler/nailer for 19.99.

    I've been using mine for months now for all sort of things (renovating house, put together 300 frames, and installed 300 sheets of foundation. I put the frames together with a staple and the the wedge with a short brad.
    Richard
    Carriage House Farm, North Bend, Ohio

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,492

    Default

    >From a Michael Bush post.

    Wow. Beat me to it.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,599

    Default

    my stapler from Grizzly misfires (fails to fire a staple) a lot, do you guys have similar problems?

    Dave

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,120

    Default

    I have a narrow crown stapler for frames, and a wide crown stapler for boxes, bottoms, and covers.

    One thing about stapling frames. I used to use 2 - 1 3/8 staples on each end of the top bar, just as you would with nails. I found I was breaking a lot of top bar lugs when the supers were placed into service. You know how if you try to break a stick, it is difficult, but if you score the stick with your knife, it breaks easily. Well, that's what I think happens with staples. If you use 2, it makes a score across the top bar, weakening the top bar. I now use one staple and glue. I don't seem to be having the problem in my newer equipment.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Sawyer, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,118
    I bought the same brad nailer that Durandal did several years ago and have worked the dickens out of it without a single problem. Once in a while you get a good tool for a little money and this was one of them. I would match itís performance to any on the market and for a fraction of the price.
    The Busy Bee teaches two lessons: One is not to be idle and the other is not to get stung.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,637

    Smile nails or staples?

    I use wide crown staples for the super and frame assembly.
    I use 2.5" truss screws for my super cleats. Ring shank nails are used by some beekeepers.
    The reason for the wide crown staples is so that they straddle the saw kerf bottom bar and then we snap in the Pierco black foundation which is sprayed with bees wax. The frames are full depth but the top bars is about 1/2 the length of a standard top bar. The custom frames are made by Mr. Yorty in Oregon.
    The staples are galvanized and coated with glue so that the glue holds the staple in place. It is you choice.
    I use a 2" wide crown staple for the top bars and a 1.5" wide crown staple for the bottom bar. They are strong. The staples can be bought that go into the wood straight or with a little twist. Soak the wood in water at least for 15 minutes to prevent splitting. Our local relative humisity can be 15-20%. We assembled a few thousand last year and they are stock piled for queen production this spring.
    No glue is needed.
    We made our own inside feeders too. We did seal the feeders will a high quaility sealant. The feeders were dipped twice in 140 degree melting point parrafin and we will use 160 degree MP parrafin this season.
    Just waiting for the proper time to graft. No hurry until the drones are emerged.
    Regards,
    Ernie
    Lucas Apiaries

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Wheatfield, IN
    Posts
    2,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I have a narrow crown stapler for frames, and a wide crown stapler for boxes, bottoms, and covers.

    One thing about stapling frames. I used to use 2 - 1 3/8 staples on each end of the top bar, just as you would with nails. I found I was breaking a lot of top bar lugs when the supers were placed into service. You know how if you try to break a stick, it is difficult, but if you score the stick with your knife, it breaks easily. Well, that's what I think happens with staples. If you use 2, it makes a score across the top bar, weakening the top bar. I now use one staple and glue. I don't seem to be having the problem in my newer equipment.
    Interesting that you mention that.... I had the same problem this past season. This year I've only been putting one staple on top and two under the end of the top bar. I'm thinking maybe I should just put one under the top bar.
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sparta, Tennessee
    Posts
    2,122

    Default

    I went with a compressed air Bostitch narrow crown stapler the end of last year and swear by it. After hammering all these years, I would never go back. It does a great job and has yet to misfire or jam.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,861

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    the nail is just a clamp until the glue dries. This shows how I nail, 4 nails per frame and done. The joints are pinned.
    http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/
    Same here. If the glue dried instantly I would not even use the brads.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Bow, NH
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Reading the posts on this thread confirmed my original plan. I went and bought a pneumatic stapler. It's a Sears Craftsman model which uses either
    staples or brads. So it's very versatile and I'm alaready getting a lot of use out of this tool. As far as assembing frames, it's made the job far less tedious and frustrating. I don't even use a jig. I simply hold a small t-square against the corner of the frame and staple. It's fast and easy. And they come out perfectly square. I just sit at my workbench and knock out one after another. I sorta feel like a bee.

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