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  1. #1
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    Default a little info about swarm traps

    Found this while surfing. tests done of the pheremone trap lures.
    http://www.sfbee.org/pdfs/SwarmTraps.pdf

  2. #2
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    Great stuff yoyo.

    I also have mentioned the swarm book put out by Root Publications several times now. It covers about everything about swarms, swarm trap placement, types, etc.

    It was 5 dollars last year including shipping, so maybe it went up. You can order by calling 1-800-289-7668 item #X56 - Swarming

    Well worth the money for this small book.

  3. #3
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    Good info - I just built a swarm trap and cant wait to set it out this Spring. With only 3 hives a lost swarm is a big set back.

  4. #4
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    Got 3 hives myself and two strong enough to swarm. I need to build a few myself. What did you build? I think I just might build some nucs and use those. I might can scrounge some waxed produce boxes and tape them up.

  5. #5
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    In my experience, nucs don't seem to catch as many swarms as a larger trap. Saw some research a couple years ago where the researcher found a similar thing. I get best results with two western 8 frame deeps.
    doug

  6. #6
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    Default

    now that you mention it , I did read somewhere that a big sized box was better than a smaller one. I don't remember where it was though. I guess size does matter!

  7. #7
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    I've had very good luck with 5-frame boxes. In the last two years have trapped 21. For me the smaller boxes are accepted well and are alot easier to place. I think location is more important than size. Using a box with a screwed on bottom and top is much easier to get out of the tree.

  8. #8
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    Default Twins

    Quote Originally Posted by kbee View Post
    I've had very good luck with 5-frame boxes. In the last two years have trapped 21. For me the smaller boxes are accepted well and are alot easier to place. I think location is more important than size. Using a box with a screwed on bottom and top is much easier to get out of the tree.
    I could have written that except for the trees part, and I only got 20. I'm gimp in the leg department so I go for top of walls, outdoor tables, top of firewood piles, easy grabbing and walking in the dark when I go for pickup. AND I AM GOING TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE BETTER FED THIS YEAR. Lost some to placing in a poor yard.

  9. #9
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    Of course some will have success with larger and smaller boxes. Things such as competing nesting locations will effect ones success to a degree, among other things.

    Dr Thomas Seeley of Cornell, did extensive swarm studies and bait hive research in the 70's. Many years of controlled studies indicated that bees prefer a volume of around 10 gallons.

    Of course one can go larger or smaller. And if one used a larger or smaller cavity, indicating a number caught does not indicate success. It indicates the number caught. It does not indicate the number that flew elsewhere.

    I'll mention again, the book I mentioned earlier. For five bucks, its well worth it. And if it helps you IMPROVE your success by giving you BETTER chances, then it pays for itself.

  10. #10
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    Aug 2006
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    Danbury, CT
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    Clean traps with and without Pheromone 19-3

    Used traps with and without pheromone 13-4

    Traps with comb and without 11-3

    They missed an important control, without and without.

    Bjorn is right about them not measuring success, because they do not know how many got away. They have no idea how many swarms where in the area and the % caught. So I am not sure what they study is showing. The #s don't really mean anything except that when the 19-3 trail was done, more hives swarmed.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  11. #11
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    Bluegrass, (I figure you know this...just for conversation sake for those who don't have the book.) Much of the book is paraphrased and written to suggest the results, but not the details of the actual study. That would require going back and looking at the research and pdf files, etc. It does not detail the actual studies. One of the things the book points out is that in studies, bees preferred a certain size box over another, when given side by side options.

    If you take this a step further, and imagine your competing with any other possible nesting sites within your apiaries vicinity, then it would only reason that having the optimal trap that bees prefer would give you the best shot. Yes, the study did not track how many got away. But it does make clear in studies, that bees do prefer a certain bait hive.

    The numbers you show suggest how many swarms were caught with and without such stimuli such as pheromones. A different subject matter altogether.

    But if one wants the best chance to catch swarms, there are very specific studies that have shown what gives you this best chance. Includes such items as trap size, placement, locations, shade-sun, baited/not baited, etc.

    I had read some of the studies somewhere. Not sure where. Maybe Cornell has them on file or were posted in ABJ, etc. I don't earmark alot. But the studies are out there for that extremely bored person fighting the winter blues..

    The book just suggests guidelines to be used as found in studies to give you the best shot. Not the full study material.

  12. #12
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    Bjorn:

    <Dr Thomas Seeley of Cornell, did extensive swarm studies and bait hive research in the 70's. Many years of controlled studies indicated that bees prefer a volume of around 10 gallons.>

    That's the study I was thinking of.


    kbee:

    <I think location is more important than size. Using a box with a screwed on bottom and top is much easier to get out of the tree.>

    That probably accounts for my lack of results with small boxes. I live in a poorly managed national forest where there are so many old and dying trees the the swarms probably have hundreds of better locations to choose from.
    doug

  13. #13
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    Oct 2007
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    Independece, Mo
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BjornBee View Post
    I also have mentioned the swarm book put out by Root Publications several times now. It covers about everything about swarms, swarm trap placement, types, etc.

    It was 5 dollars last year including shipping, so maybe it went up. You can order by calling 1-800-289-7668 item #X56 - Swarming

    Well worth the money for this small book.
    You can order this online as well:
    http://www.beeculture.com/store/inde...ducts&CatID=89


    Reno

  14. #14
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    Feb 2007
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    Willington, CT USA
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    Default

    I built a few 5 frame nucs out of extra plywood that I plan to use. In my mind this is more versatile for me: Can use one for a swarm trap and others for splits etc.

    Since I have never done this before I am going to try it and see what happens. Each year seem to loose a swarm so what the heck!

  15. #15
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    Windsor,NC,USA
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    So now that that's out of the way, what is your lure of choice? I have some lemmongrass oil I purchased and I am curious as to how many folk have had success with that and/or actively use it.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=sierrabees;285057]Bjorn:Many years of controlled studies indicated that bees prefer a volume of around 10 gallons.

    Let's do some math...help me. A deep super inside is approximately 14.75 inches wide X 18.5 inches long by 9.6 inches deep. 14.75X18.5X9.6= 2620 cubic inches.

    1 gallon = 231 cubic inches

    2620 / 231 = 11.3 gallons

    So, a deep super is close to the preferred 10 gallons.

    And a five frame nuc is about half the preferred size. Most of the swarms I caught in nucs were small.

  17. #17
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    I use lemongrass oil in all the swarm traps. A few drops on the top bars in the trap with 1 drop on the outside cover. I also put 3 foundationless frames and 2 drawn comb frames in the trap. I check them once or twice a week and put an additional drop or two inside.

  18. #18
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    What part was to hard to understand odfrank?

    Nobody said you can't catch a swarm in smaller cavity. My comments were along the lines of giving the BEST advice that studies have shown in side by side tests of different size swarm traps offered to bees.

    I even went as far to suggest that availability of competing nesting sites and other factors play a role in success, no matter the size.

    Just because you caught a swarm in a small trap does not mean that this is the best size, the best advice, or the best situation. Do you know how many got away? Did you do as the study and offer different size cavities, before you came to some conclusion? The study merely suggests that bees do in fact prefer a certain size trap. And if you can imagine that your human placed traps are competing for swarms with natural nest sites, then using the best known desirable trap may even produce more swarms than you cuaght with your traps.

    Does that mean you will never catch a swarm in a smaller trap? No. That's not the point to my comments. It had to do more with offering the best advice possible, proven by studies, and not by casual observations.

    I honestly don't know why this is hard to understand.

    Please odfrank, step back, read the comments again, take a deep breathe...

    [QUOTE=odfrank;285166]
    Quote Originally Posted by sierrabees View Post
    Bjorn:Many years of controlled studies indicated that bees prefer a volume of around 10 gallons.

    Let's do some math...help me. A deep super inside is approximately 14.75 inches wide X 18.5 inches long by 9.6 inches deep. 14.75X18.5X9.6= 2620 cubic inches.

    1 gallon = 231 cubic inches

    2620 / 231 = 11.3 gallons

    So, a deep super is close to the preferred 10 gallons.

    And a five frame nuc is about half the preferred size. Most of the swarms I caught in nucs were small.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=BjornBee;285185]What part was to hard to understand odfrank?

    Why are you again personally attacking me and making me out to be some kind of idiot? I wasn't commenting on YOU or YOUR post. I was tabulating what size box equals ten gallons. Don't take yourself so important, it wasn't about you.

  20. #20
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    You quoted me, asked for help, and I responded. Now your crying about it. go figure. I tried.

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