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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hays, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,079

    Default My first try at pics

    http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...R_Hiveside.jpg
    http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...Hivefront1.jpg
    http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b..._Waterfall.jpg

    As an energy auditor, I get to play with some cool tools. I thought I'd take some shots in my backyard after a 13.5 inch snowfall using our Flir IR camera. I was actually looking for heat loss signatures of the house and found some areas I need to correct.

    These are two infrared pictures of the hive in my back yard and one of our pond. Lighter colors are warmer than darker colors. The bright spot below the hive is soil releasing warmth to the hive and air above & around it. I'm guessing later this winter as the soil temp lowers, I'll see less heat beneath the hive. I took some shots of my footprints and the lawn beneath the snow was much warmer, showing brightly colored footprints.

    Since warm air rises, but heat does not, I am assuming that the cluster is in the upper super, since that's where the main heat signature is. The hive is losing heat around parts of the telescoping cover. The handholds make the hive body thinner, resulting in less R-value. So the handholds show up as a heat signature. I'm thinking of doing some experimenting and might examine our other hives. I figure the better heat signature I get would mean a larger cluster.

    Using this color pallette, our pond waterfall looks like a lava flow. Back to the 'lab'. NExt, I'm going to see how the bore scope works on inspection without opening a hive.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Leetonia, Ohio
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Can I play with some of these neat tools also. That is cool!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sparta, Tennessee
    Posts
    2,121

    Default

    Those pictures are really interesting, ty for sharing. What kind of camera takes those pictures?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hays, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    This camera is a Flir Thermacam P-65. We have an older model, but got this one earlier in the year. A real useful tool, but comes with a hefty price tag. I'm starting a collection of 'gee whiz' photos showing energy leakage points, bad insualtion, etc. for energy conservation presentations.

    When I was a volunteer firefighter, we used one similar to this to find hot spots during smoke alarms or during a fire call-out to find a problem when no flames were present yet. Great tools, thanks to old military technology that has been released to the public finally.

    In the warmer months, I use it to scan electrical substations. Commercial and industrial facilities sometimes hire us to scan for industrial machinery problems. If you find a hot bearing or in the case of a substation transformer, a hot connection, etc. problems can be hopefully prevented with immediate maintenance. In the cooler months, I take it into homes and businesses and along with a blower door, scan for air leakage, missing insulation, water leaks in flat roofs, etc.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oxford, Kansas
    Posts
    1,988

    Default

    what do you charge to analyze a home for leakage I maybe interested

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Princeton, West Virginia
    Posts
    478

    Default

    Those are good pics. The waterfall one reminds me of the pics you see of lava flows.
    What I Smoke has a Sting to it

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,122

    Default

    I'd like to see Flir-Thermacam photo comparison of colonies wrapped and unwrapped for winter.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Apeldoorn, Netherlands
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I'd like to see Flir-Thermacam photo comparison of colonies wrapped and unwrapped for winter.
    And styropor / wood.

    Question: Has the hive an open mesh bottom?

    Hennie.....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hays, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    Rat-
    send me a PM and maybe we can maybe just work something in (if you're not in any hurry). I work for a utility out of Hays and we're booked pretty heavily at the moment . With the recent storms, I get to wear some other hats that added to my load. We serve south to near Hutchinson in spots, like Arlington area, all of Lyons and some areas south of there. If I could work it in to "be in the neighborhood", maybe a neighborly visit might just be in order! Mainly we do services for our utility customers, but we do a lot of work for non customers also. If you don't need a Energy Star official certified audit and rating, the charge could be extremely reasonable. I'd like to see your operation, also.

    Michael- I was thinking the same thing, only we don't wrap our hives. We do have one BeeMax, but it's at Mom's farm. We'll be there this weekend for my side of our family's Christmas and if I can sneak the IR camera along I may scan it and some other hives.

    HennieK- yes this is a screened bottom board, but the slide in coverlet has been in place since mid-October. The soil is still fairly warm, even after our 1.26" freezing rain followed by 13-1/2" snowfall last week. I took some IR shots of some other houses and you can see heat through cracks in the street, storm sewer vents and such. If you guys want, I can post a few gee-whiz shots of some of the things I've found energy auditing. Maybe after the first of the new year. We're kind of busy getting the house and grub ready for the crowd we'll have here next week. Then, i'm putting in a new HVAC system in right after Christmas.

    I'm going to scan more hives and see if there's much difference among them. The one in my back yard did extremely well for a first year group and we have a couple of marginal hives I'd like to compare to.
    Last edited by Swobee; 12-20-2007 at 08:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Lightbulb

    It kind of blows the theory of the bees not heating the hive doesn't it?

    I would think if they didn't, there would be a ball of heat in the area of the cluster, instead we see the top of the hive and the bottom of the hive hotter than the middle. They could be in the top box, but look at the white heat coming from the SBB.

    hmmmm,,,
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sparta, Tennessee
    Posts
    2,121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swobee View Post
    This camera is a Flir Thermacam P-65. We have an older model, but got this one earlier in the year. A real useful tool, but comes with a hefty price tag.
    Holey Cow! I just did a quick search on the net...someone from Sentry Systems, Chatworth California indicated that they paid $58,000 for the camera and software in 2005! They were selling theirs for a bargain price of $39,000 in Jan 2007...oh but it came with reporter software.

    You weren't kiddin when you wrote that "it comes with a hefty price tag!"

    Thanks,

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hays, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,079

    Default Bullseye Bill

    I think this early in the winter, there's still a lot of residual heat from the masses of honey, wood, etc. in the hive along with the heat from the cluster. I have no doubt the bees heat their hives to at least some degree (no pun intended). Later on as the cold season progresses along, I plan to scan my hive and take a number of readings. The software with this new camera allows us to go back to the office, download photos and place any number of temperature points in the photo we want. Then, we can see temps at various places, surfaces, etc.

    This may be a cool experiment after all. If I only had a brain, being very much like the scarecrow & I'm from Kansas. I know I have a heart, since I give blood regularly, it's the brains I'm a little short on. I would be happy to share information as the winter goes along and see if we can blow some theories or open up some new ones. If anyone can think of specific hive research they'd like to see from an infrared approach, let me know and we'll see what happens.

    As for the camera, we got a pretty good deal on it, but the one it replaced cost even more. Technology gets cheaper as years go by. Remember your first 'pocket' calculator in the early 70's and what it cost for only a few functions?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    eastern Hanover, Virginia
    Posts
    361

    Default Ebay

    there's a couple much cheaper models on ebay right now. still WAY outta my price range. I'd really be interested in having my house thermal imaged so i can tell where i need better insulation. Are there companies out there that charge for the service? I'd like to look up someone to do this, but i dont know what to look under in the phone book... maybe "thermal imaging"? I havent checked yet
    -M@

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159
    I had always thought that a flir would be a great tool for finding bees in walls making the cutouts more precise.

    There was a tool a few years ago for the termite industry that was close, but also cost a bundle. If memory serves me right over 4K and some other licensing agreements as well.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hays, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,079

    Default

    I have a cut out to do next spring and I thought the Flir would be a good tool to see how extensively the bees were in the walls. It would keep me from opening a wall area that wasn't necessary.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Dane County, WI.
    Posts
    3,721

    Default

    "It kind of blows the theory of the bees not heating the hive doesn't it". - Bullseye B.

    That IS interesting! Swobee. It seems that your "instrument" is VERY sensitive then, if you talk of "residual" heat shown in your photos. It would mean that we could just put a wrap around the "hand holds" or other "sensitive spots" on the hive, that would be sufficient. Maybe, though the "hand holds" show "heat" with your instrument the space from the cluster to the hand holds is still within the ambient temperature surrounding the hive itself. Don't worry,.. I am a little "short" on brains myself.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hays, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    1,079

    Default Took some tonight at Mom's

    We have 13 hives in Mom's back yard, but her entire yard is a quarter section of farm land. I am going to have to review the images from tonight back at the office where the software for processing them lies. We can add more crosshair points and check a temp at just about any spot in the photo, adjust focus, etc.

    Some images I took tonight have me concerned. Some hives showed virtually no heat signature differential anywhere on the hive bodies. Others showed interesting things, ie- a crack where the two brood chambers met with a large heat signature at the joint. This meant to me that the hive is losing heat there and upon flashlight examination, I found the lumber is bowed or somehow doesn't fit tightly along one edge where the bodies meet. Another hive showed heat at handholds and around/under the edges of the cover. My theory is that if a hive is losing heat from under a cover, the hive is likely venting well. I need to study these and take closer notes to see if those with little heat signature are already dead or maybe just have a very small cluster, or dosciver some other reason completely.

    One in particular with a poor heat signature was a captured swarm from early June and they just never did well this year. I'm certain the cluster is small and they may be gone completely already. Too darn cold and snowy today to open any up, and I didn't have the borescope along. Next spring's results will tell me if a 'hot' hive in winter overwinters better than one with little heat showing, or if it's all a crapshoot. I have a few theories at the moment, but need to organize some thoughts to the thermal testing so I'm not just playing and using my powers for good!lol

    I've never really studied bees before, I have to admit about all I did was interact or react to them. About time I started to pay closer attention instead of just tending to them.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    297

    Default

    >> Took some tonight

    Do post them please. I find your Flir photos interesting and educational.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,580

    Default Swobee's infrared pictures from 2007

    Swobee posted links to inrared pictures he took last year and they were so neat I thought they deserved a second look.

    Last edited by Bizzybee; 12-19-2008 at 04:45 AM.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Manassas, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    342

    Default Re: Swobee's infrared pictures from 2007

    I've got a Flir I7, a little home inspection camera that goes for about two grand. I'm continuously amazed at what it can do. I've managed a close-up of a foraging worker on a flower. The workers buzz their wings before flight to warm their flight muscles, and as a result, their thoraxic temperatures can be as warm as a human! Not only could you image the temperature of a ball, you can image individuals. On the attached, the orange blob shows the measured temperature of a bee thorax.

    I overlaid this with a similar bee and blossom photo, which is now in the PWRBA calendar.

    Honeybee-FLIRi7 003-Report.jpg

    BeeCalendarSubmission2013DocCompr.jpg
    Last edited by Phoebee; 01-28-2014 at 08:37 PM. Reason: Second pic

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