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Thread: Mites or CCD?

  1. #1
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    Default Mites or CCD?

    Found a deadout jumbo today. It was so strong two months ago that it stored honey in the wet super that was placed on it after extracting. Today, no bees, no robbers, probably 50 lbs. of stores.

    http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...k/IMG_0758.jpg

  2. #2
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    Was there any sealed brood? Even a little bit? How about in the bottom box?

  3. #3
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    Have you medicated with anything?

  4. #4
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    What did the brood frames look like? Any sign of pests? Are you aware of their Mite levels (vorroa & tracheal)?
    Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary http://beachesbeehaven.com
    Aiken Beekeepers Association http://aikenbeekeepers.org

  5. #5
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    There was the normal dead sealed brood left by mited out bees. I do not medicate. There was no bottom box, it was a Jumbo. I have a lot of mites in many colonies and do every winter.

  6. #6
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    Default Mites or CCD?

    It might be worth freezing a couple of frames to send off
    to the lab, looks suspicious. You would think even in worse case
    there should be a small patch of brood and a small cluster struggling to
    keep it warm.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    There was the normal dead sealed brood left by mited out bees. I do not medicate. There was no bottom box, it was a Jumbo. I have a lot of mites in many colonies and do every winter.
    OK, there was some brood. Pull some hatching brood. The bee must be fully developed, and hatching. She will often have her tongue sticking out. Does she have fully formed wings? How long is her abdomen? Shorter than the wings?

    This is a pretty good field test for PMS.

  8. #8
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    I'd say you just lost your first hive to vorroa destructor. But it won't hurt to send a frame to the lab and verify things.

    -Nathanael
    Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary http://beachesbeehaven.com
    Aiken Beekeepers Association http://aikenbeekeepers.org

  9. #9
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    Nothing good ever comes from lots of mites. Medicate. Keep the bees healthy. If you are not a comophous person I also like formic acid.

  10. #10
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    I think the fact there is no robbing would make me think it's not mites. A hive that has been weakened by mites is usually robbed out and the mites taken back to the robbers hive. The fact that there was not a small number of bees and a queen could be because you were a couple of days late finding this hive. I believe it only takes a couple of weeks to go from strong hive to nothing. It will probably take two to four weeks for your dead hive to air out before robbers will start working on it. At least that's my understanding of CCD. Jim

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    It was so strong two months ago ...
    Today, no bees, ...
    I've had a few colonies overcome by Varroa Mites, and if I remember correctly, in each case there were a lot of dead bees and mites to be found in the hive. It was very obvious what had taken them out.

    Is it common to find no dead bees in a hive after a sudden collapse from Varroa Mites? Just curious what anyone else has noticed.
    To everything there is a season....

  12. #12
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    I am not too far from Odfrank's location. Some years ago I lost one to varroa at exactly this time of year. His description fits my loss to a tee. And I am positive that mine did die from varroa.
    As for the robbing, in this area there is still plenty of forage available and the temps are quite good. Empty hives can sit for quite a while before getting robbed. Not always the case but not unusual either.

    Fuzzy

  13. #13
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    Default robbing

    They didn't rob this hive but come around in force when I open my honey house door. All over dry/wet supers I removed from the hives too.

  14. #14
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    yea CS, you just keep on medicating... that is how we have questionable queens with crappy hygenic behavior.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Isaac View Post
    yea CS, you just keep on medicating... that is how we have questionable queens with crappy hygenic behavior.
    I am myself using a greatly resistant strain of bee constructed by a local beekeeper who medicates with nothing. I am using these in test hives to see if I can use this strain to go med free. I am a proponent of non-medication. However, I hate to see bees die as I am sure anyone on this site will agree. If a hive is overrun with varroa, these "destructors" I will medicate. I have also seen that there is a considerable amount of money to be made in honey sales and could not attain this profit margin if all my bees are dying. I hate the idea of chemicals, but I will not let my bees perish as martyrs to the organic idealism.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    This is a pretty good field test for PMS.
    I know what that means when my wife has it. What does it mean when bees have it?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSbees View Post
    I will not let my bees perish as martyrs to the organic idealism.
    I quite medicating when I lost half the hives with Apistan, and also after I found lost strips in hive after a year or two. I just found one in a dead out that must have been hiding for three years. How many of those are there across the world?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    I know what that means when my wife has it. What does it mean when bees have it?
    Parasytic Mite Syndrome

    The pupae have been damaged by Varroa and Viruses. Many don't develop correctly, so by the end, you are left with few bees and dying brood. Many bees die in the process of hatching. The hatching bees have shriveled wings and/or stunted, flattened little abdomens.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    I know what that means when my wife has it. What does it mean when bees have it?
    Not the same thing your wife has. (Parasitic Mite Syndrome)

    Quote Originally Posted by CSbees View Post
    I am myself using a greatly resistant strain of bee constructed by a local beekeeper who medicates with nothing. I am using these in test hives to see if I can use this strain to go med free. I am a proponent of non-medication. However, I hate to see bees die as I am sure anyone on this site will agree. If a hive is overrun with varroa, these "destructors" I will medicate. I have also seen that there is a considerable amount of money to be made in honey sales and could not attain this profit margin if all my bees are dying. I hate the idea of chemicals, but I will not let my bees perish as martyrs to the organic idealism.
    If my bees are heavily infested with vorroa, then, yes, I'll treat chemically. But I just take a little more work and effort upon myself to sugar dust my hives throughout the year. It's a lot more affordable than chemicals, and I can still get top dollar for "organic" honey!

    -Nathanael
    Beaches' Bee-Haven Apiary http://beachesbeehaven.com
    Aiken Beekeepers Association http://aikenbeekeepers.org

  20. #20
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    I also will try the powdered sugar dustings next year.

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