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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Brookings, Oregon USA
    Posts
    246

    Default Varroa--What to do now?

    I need some advice on what to do at this point. Back in the middle of August I treated my hive is Apistan and left in the hive for recomend period of time. Dead mites fell. I put screened bottom board on the hive about a month and a half ago with a slatted bottom board. About 5 days ago I noticed 3 dead bees outside of the hive with deformed wings. Yesterday a did a powdered sugar roll and within 6 hours I found 29 varroa on my plastic insert of the screened bottom board. They were various sizes & colors. Some were mix in the sugar and dead. Some were on top of the sugar and still alive (these I might add were redish in color). At this point I'm not sure what to do. November is right around the corner. Is it too late to treat with anything. Maybe EO's? I live in Brookings Oregon, about 7 miles from the ocean in a forested area, elevation about 500 ft. Girls are still flying and there are still drones around. I might add the hive is two deep and the girls are on large cell.

    Thanks for any and all help,

    Corinne

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,125

    Default

    So you treated the hive with powdered sugar and had a post treatment drop of 29 mites. That's not much.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Brookings, Oregon USA
    Posts
    246

    Default

    Thanks, Michael,
    I thought it was something I needed to concerned about at this point.

    Corinne

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Default

    >did a powdered sugar roll and within 6 hours I found 29 varroa on my plastic insert . . .

    Assuming the 29 mites found was CAUSED BY the treatment.
    It COULD mean that there was very few mites in the hive.
    It can ALSO mean that, for some reason the treatment DID NOT remove many mites.

    It's ALWAYS best to have (several) PRE-TREATMENT counts of NALURAL fall.
    Then, as you count several times AFTER treatment, you can then compare the before to the after to determine how many mites remain.

    AS it stand now, "we" dont know

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Brookings, Oregon USA
    Posts
    246

    Default

    Thanks Dave,

    Appreciate your advice.

    Corinne

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Knoxville, Tennessee,USA
    Posts
    207

    Default

    Remember those 29 would have fallen through the screen for the treatment.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,575

    Default

    First of all, terminology: a sugar roll is when you take a sampling of bees from the hive place them in a jar, then add P-sugar to the jar and shake. What you indicate is that you did a powered sugar treatment of the entire hive and then counted mites that fell off immediately after the P-sugar treatment. OK, all that to say I strongly agree with Dave W. I'd further echo his statement that you really do not have conclusive proof either way on the status of the mites in your hive. Personally, I'd be concerned enough to do further monitoring until you can get a better natural mite drop count. Dead bees found with deformed wings is never a good sign and is "almost" always an indicator that mites are (or have been) present. Also note that deformed wings can sometimes look like shredded wings which are sometimes just a sign of old bees. What kind of mite drop did you have prior to and resulting from the strips back in August? If you don't know then chalk this up as a missed opportunity. One should always monitor mites prior to, during, and after treatments. Also, when relying exclusively on strips, you need to be aware that some mites have developed resistance to Apistan, which will make drop counts taken during treatment misleading.

    Too many unknowns to make definitive statements. Give us more data.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Brookings, Oregon USA
    Posts
    246

    Default

    Thank you AstroBee for clarifying the difference between a sugar roll and p-sugar treatment of the hive for me. Yes, this will have to be chalked up as a missed opportunity. I do realize mites have developed resistance to Apistan. Although this was only the second time I had used them, resistance to the strips was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the dead bees. I will continue to monitor and take samplings before, during, and after the next treatment. If you have any suggestions on what to use for treatment in spring I would appreciate the advice. Also when would one use a sugar roll? Wouldn't one receive the same results from a sugar roll and a p-sugar treatment? Are they used for the same purpose?

    Corinne

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,125

    Default

    I'm with DaveW for any treatment, I want to know the fall before, during and after. That way I have something to compare.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Evansville, IN, USA
    Posts
    2,837

    Default

    >mites have developed resistance to Apistan . . .
    In some locales, SOME V-mites have developed resistance, but not ALL mites are resistant. You can and probable should test YOUR mites beforing using Fluvalinate, the chemical in Apistan (and other illegal stuff).

    >take samplings before, during, and after the next treatment . . .
    Please dont wait until "next treatment" to sample, DO IT NOW, all winter, next spring, next summer, next fall! I like to count mites

    >suggestions on what to use for treatment in spring . . .
    You may not need to treat in spring, BUT you want know if you dont have NUMBERS.

    >use a sugar roll . . .
    "Sugar roll" is a test method (not as good as NATURAL counts on a sticky board). You put bees and powdered sugar in a jar and "roll" them around to determine IF you have varroa mites.

    "Powder sugar" as a treatment, is applied over the frames of whole hive to REMOVE V-mites. If hive has a lot of mites, and the powdered sugar does a good job causing them to fall off the bees, you may have hundreds of mites on the sticky-board.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Brookings, Oregon USA
    Posts
    246

    Default

    Okay I'll continue to take samples now, all winter, spring and next summer.

    >You may not need to treat in spring, BUT you want know if you dont have NUMBERS.
    So what would the critical numbers be and during what period of time? And if they are too high lets say in January what should I do? Or would they even be high during the winter months? Does the mite ever sleep? Right now I have the plastic insert to my screened bottom board covered with oil and in place. I will check this evening. Maybe regressing the bees to small cell would be a better bet. But you would still have to treat the hive until the girls get to where they sould be correct?

    Corinne

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