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Thread: moth crystals

  1. #1
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    Oct 2007
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    madison heights, mi
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    Default moth crystals

    does anyone know if the use of moth crystals will kill waxworms? I have a few worms that made it into my honey frames before i extracted. I would like to treat with para moth and hope they will drop dead.
    Tom in Michigan

  2. #2

    Default

    you can use the paramoth to kill them but not while there is honey in it. Extract it first if it is not to badly ruined.
    then treat like stored supers. do not put it on before.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Tip of the Thumb, Michigan
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    Default

    Pop the frames into the freezer overnight (24 hours, is what they say) to kill the larva and eggs.

    Then, warm the frames and extract the honey, afterwards.

    And, don't use Paramoth with honey stored in the frames. It'll flavor the honey and nothing (or nobody) will want to touch it.

    By the way, save yourself some money and use PDB, or paraDichlorobenzene, (which IS Paramoth) moth crystals, which are available cheaply at Wal-Mart or Meijer, near you.

    A paper plate, or piece of paper, with a couple tablespoons of crystals on top of two stacked supers. Place them in a trash bag and tie them TIGHTLY shut, and store them outside where they'll freeze. In the spring, just before you're about to use them, air them out for 24-48 hours before setting them on your colony.

    Do NOT use the old fashioned napatha, or napthalene, moth balls. This is a petroleum product and will "poison" your frames and comb. Read the labels! Buy the right one!

    Enjoy!
    BDDS

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Alpharetta, GA, USA
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    Default Why use moth crystals at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyDS View Post
    Pop the frames into the freezer overnight (24 hours, is what they say) to kill the larva and eggs.
    Then, warm the frames and extract the honey, afterwards.
    And then buy some Bt from Sundance, mix with water, spray your frames and never have to worry about wax moth larvae on those frames again!!
    Why not use the natural alternative? It works.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyDS View Post
    By the way, save yourself some money and use PDB, or paraDichlorobenzene, (which IS Paramoth) moth crystals, which are available cheaply at Wal-Mart or Meijer, near you.
    You might be interested in this article:

    http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/waxmoth.htm

    Contamination of wax and honey by paradichiorobenzene (PDCB)

    [SIZE=-1]PDCB is a highly volatile and lipophilic (easily soluble in fat and wax) substance. Beeswax can take up this material and a part of it may later migrate into honey. Honey analyses from Germany and Austria show that PDCB residues in honey are not rare. This applies to native as well as imported honeys.

    Even when measured values pose no problems as far as human toxicology is concerned (an experiment on carcinogenic effects is ongoing), the reputation of honey as one of the last natural products may be damaged in the eyes of the public. Therefore, all beekeepers who are concerned about the quality of bee products are advised not to use PDCB and it is recommended that alternative control strategies be employed.
    German experiments (K. Wallner, Hohenheim, 1992) [8]

    [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]-Paradichlorobenzene in wax
    The amount of PDCB stored in wax depends on the duration of exposure and the wax surface area. Foundation takes up PDCB more quickly than wax as a block (table 1). Wax takes up PDCB like a sponge. The more PDCB crystals are added to combs and the longer PDCB acts on the combs, the higher the substance stored in the wax.

    [/SIZE]

    Evaporation of PDCB from beeswax.

    [SIZE=-1]-Airing[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]
    Airing of combs over 1-2 days before insertion into the colony avoids visible damage to bees. Despite this, considerable amounts of PDCB may still be present in wax. Airing over several weeks is not enough toremove PDCB from wax completely (fig.2).

    [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1] The amount and speed of removal are above all temperature-dependent. Thus, the considerably higher temperature in the colony causes PDCB evaporation from combs not previously aired enough. If these cells are now filled with honey, PDCB migrates slowly into the honey.

    -Melting old wax
    When old comb is melted, the residues persist in the new wax. Examinations of wax carried out here have shown that the majority of commercial wax in Switzerland contains PDCB residues of 5-10 mg/kg.

    [/SIZE]
    Stability of PDCB In honey

    [SIZE=-1]-PDCB evaporates reluctantly from honey and only from the topmost layer.
    -Honey cannot be aired as long as needed, since it attracts water and odors.
    -There is no possibility of significantly reducing paradichlorobenzene content of honey later.
    -Residues of PDCB in honey are not permitted in Switzerland. Honeys with residues are rejected by the Cantonal chemists. Honeys with any residue that is not normal will be rejected by British packers.[/SIZE]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Edgefield County, South Carolina
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    Default

    >And then buy some Bt from Sundance, mix with water, spray your frames and never have to worry about wax moth larvae on those frames again!!
    Why not use the natural alternative? It works.


    Try this also: Check with a local AG store in your area for BT sold under the product name Zentari, you may find it (especially if you are in an area that grows produce). I found it in a 1lb bag at a very reasonable price!!!
    __________________
    sc-bee

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon, USA
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    Default moth crystals

    Barry, very roughly a year and a half ago, there was an article in Organic Gardening Magazine in which moth crystals were linked to cancer. I haven't heard any follow up since. Do you or anyone out there have an update on this?

    Also, I purchased Bt from Sundance last year. I sprayed it on some combs that were starting to show wax moth damage. It stoped the damage and killed the wax moth larva almost immediately. A great organic control.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morris View Post
    Do you or anyone out there have an update on this?
    I don't. I'd also like to know of any other studies on this subject that are newer than the one posted (1999).

    - Barry

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Delta, Utah
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    Default

    "buy some Bt from Sundance, mix with water, spray your frames and never have to worry about wax moth larvae on those frames again!!"

    Ever again, or just until next year?

    -Rob
    -Rob Bliss
    Bliss Honey and bee supplies

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Alpharetta, GA, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pahvantpiper View Post
    "buy some Bt from Sundance, mix with water, spray your frames and never have to worry about wax moth larvae on those frames again!!"

    Ever again, or just until next year?

    -Rob
    That's what I've experienced and have been told by M. Bush. After I spray each frame I mark it in some way on the top bar so that I know it doesn't need spraying again. Also, wax moths tend to damage comb that has been used for brood (hence the darker color cells) than just comb where only honey has been stored.

  11. #11
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    Apr 2006
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    Delta, Utah
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    Default

    Thanx kenpkr. Can Michael Bush and/or Sundance also confirm this, that once sprayed with BT a frame will stay wax moth free forever? Seems hard to believe but would be well worth it if it only had to be done once...ever. Seems like anything that would attack wax moth larva would also attack bee larva. Anyway, I'd better figure this out for sure before I go spraying 10's of thousands of frames thinking I'm now safe from wax moths forever.

    -Rob
    -Rob Bliss
    Bliss Honey and bee supplies

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    madison heights, mi
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    Default bt

    Soo, to summarize what a lot of you are posting is that we SHOULD be using a banned chemical that is sprayed into the frames and will be there for ever and SHOULD NOT use an approved chemical that will dissipate in a day or two after removal. Is that right?
    Tom in Michigan

  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tjenkins View Post
    Soo, to summarize what a lot of you are posting is that we SHOULD be using a banned chemical that is sprayed into the frames and will be there for ever and SHOULD NOT use an approved chemical that will dissipate in a day or two after removal. Is that right?
    Tom in Michigan
    True Tom, but what we are talking about is a biological pesticide that has as its killing device a bacterial spore which when ingested by the wax moth larvae kills them in short order. Sundance (who is selling this dry product) gives a strong disclaimer NOT to use this for anything other than what it's intended to be used for. It's a natural product that I'm comfortable spraying into my combs to protect them from damage. And I'd say that PDB stays in wax comb (a true chemical sink) with a more deleterious effect- i.e.- contaminated honey, and perhaps harm to the bees (not to mention the user). PDB's label disclaimer is more strongly worded and a bit scarier that Xentari's

    pahvantpiper,

    "I have found one treatment on a comb sufficient for the life of that comb. New combs will need treatment. I usually treat them after they are drawn, harvested and cleaned up by the bees."
    M Bush 1/2/07 in this thread-
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...=203563&page=8

  14. #14
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    Feb 2006
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    Orlando, FL
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    Default

    kenpkr calls it a biological pesticide. Though that is technically true, it makes it sound worse than it is.

    Bt is a bacteria. Bacteria are everywhere on this planet. This one just happens to make wax moths so sick they cannot eat or drink and subsequently die.

    Have you ever had food poisoning? I got it once at McDonalds. I was so sick I wished I were dead. That is a fate I'd love all wax moths to have.

    The nice thing about Bt is that it is a bacteria that does not affect Bees or Humans and so it is ideal for use in this way.
    Troy

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,104

    Default

    >Soo, to summarize what a lot of you are posting is that we SHOULD be using a banned...

    It is not banned. The registration simply lapsed. It was tested as safe for humans and is still certified for use on food crops and is still in use for them. It's just the registration for wax moths that has expired.

    >...chemical...

    It is NOT a chemical.


    >that is sprayed into the frames and will be there for ever

    The reason it lasts is that it is a spore forming bacteria and the spores will live a long time or until they are ingested by a wax moth.

    >and SHOULD NOT use an approved chemical...

    Actually PDB is a carcinogenic chemical that is banned in California and most all of Europe for use on stored comb.

    >that will dissipate in a day or two after removal.

    No it will not dissipate in a day or two after removal. It will be in the wax for some time and in the honey for some time after that. This is the reason it is banned in Europe and California and the reason it is tested for in honey in Europe.

    >Is that right?

    Other than everything yous stated not being true, yes that's about right.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  16. #16
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    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
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    Default

    I don't think BT will get rid of wax moth forever. I used it 3 or 4 years ago when I had an incursion of greater wax moth. I'm well north of their traditional range in the UK, but we have been seeing them now and then in the West Midlands over the last few years. I haven't seen those beasts again, but it wasn't long before the ubiquitous lesser wax moth, which doesn't seem to do any significant damage, moved back in.
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

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