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  1. #21
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    Jun 2007
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    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    908

    Default

    now now fellas, if he wants to spend his time and money for the betterment of beekeeping for beekeepers, you really shouldn't make fun. let him do his thing. it's not like he's catching swarms of ahb and sending them to oklahama or anything. but as far as i can tell, if this thing was scaled down to size for the bees it would be the best protection against mites and ahb;
    http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...t=DSCN4076.jpg

  2. #22
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    Jun 2005
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    Greensboro, N.C.
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    Thanks, MB. You are 100% correct. The only thing is, Dr. Rod wasn't a stubborn, bull-headed, redneck like me.

    I ain't goin' nowhar.

    The [edit by mod] slung here goes right by me and as far as I am concerned, acts like a boomerang and flys right back into the face of the thrower.

    By the way, Dr. Rod, glad to see you visiting and hope you can ignore the ignoramuses and hang around.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-13-2007 at 08:38 AM. Reason: crude language

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    5,159
    Quote Originally Posted by Bizzybee View Post
    I gave up on the fogging about a year ago and sold my fogger. Wish I had kept it now!!! Dang if that thing wasn't fun! Light sticks don't hold a candle to one of them things!!!! Whewhoooooo
    I have one that I will send you after I get that bottle of mead, ahem. It works great. I even have about four and a half gallons of oil to go with it. It must have worked really well as I used it back when the dr. said that the ONLY thing you needed was fgmo. That was before you needed to add cords or even later when you had to add thymol.

    So this is the good stuff from back in ought three. Like I said, I used it a few times and then decided to go treatment free and it worked! Thanks to fgmo I have no problems!
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  4. #24
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    Feb 2003
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    Lake county, Indiana 46408-4109
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    3,540

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    Quote Originally Posted by iddee View Post
    Thanks, MB. You are 100% correct. The only thing is, Dr. Rod wasn't a stubborn, bull-headed, redneck like me.

    I ain't goin' nowhar.

    The [edit by mod] slung here goes right by me and as far as I am concerned, acts like a boomerang and flys right back into the face of the thrower.

    By the way, Dr. Rod, glad to see you visiting and hope you can ignore the ignoramuses and hang around.
    10 - 4 I AGREE
    Last edited by Barry; 10-13-2007 at 08:39 AM.
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    MB,
    I would have to dissagree. The reason he left, is many. Being questioned was out of the question. Being questioned was beneath him. Being questioned was ignored.

    If you questioned ANYTHING that Dr, R. did not want to answer, you were ignored. If you spoke highly of FGMO, you were unindated with "God bless you" and the like.

    I remember a time that in one of the failed "tests" that the cord was supposedly one inch shorter than the protocol called for. I questioned why a protocol could be marketed that could have a failure rate or success rate so clearly defined by an inch difference in cord. Ignored.

    I questioned why if the protocol was so complete, with a guaranteed 100% effectiveness, why did it change so many times over the years. FGMO, FGMO with cords, fgmo with cords with thymol, fgmo with thymol but no cords....I'm not even sure where the protocol stands anymore. But anyway....ignored!

    I would like at this time to stop and mention my complete free giving of my human existance, dedicated to humanity. My whole existance has been to be a better beekeeper, to help others, to serve humanity, and know I have done this without any help. I have sacrificed much, and spend much of my own money, my time, and my inner soul...only trying to help others. For those who appreciate this.....GOD BLESS YOU! For all the others....I'll be ignoring you!

    And if any of you even attempt to question my post, question my protocol, or fail to hang on every word that I say...I will take my ball and go home. Of course, I will make that threat many, many times. And when I do leave... As Arnold said "I'll be Backl!"

    I also believe right before he left, Dr. R openly stated that he had another forum that would allow him to promote his ideas, with no questions asked. Becuase he did not have time to answer questions. This was the reason he left. He left for better pastures. He left for a forum that he could use as a platform to promote his ideas without the masses he was speaking, being able to ask questions. He wanted no questions, no counterpoints, and no objections. Something that does not always happen on an open forum.

    I think for anyone around long enough....this paints a better picture. Thats how I saw it. Thats my opinion.

    As usual, if you don't agree with something, comments of [edit by mod] is made. Surprised that these comments are allowed. To dissagree is one thing. To call someone's comments [edit by mod] is another. Debate should be encouraged. [edit by mod] slinging should not.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-13-2007 at 08:40 AM.

  6. #26
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    Jun 2005
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    Greensboro, N.C.
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    Default

    [edit by mod]

    >>>The only difference here was
    the method of application, where an expensive and occasionally
    balky piece of equipment was used, rather than the simple approach
    of strips or powders.<<<

    One great difference was the 3 seconds it takes to treat, without opening the hive.

    [edit by mod]
    Last edited by Barry; 10-13-2007 at 08:42 AM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    3,401

    Default

    > So maybe it is the thymol that kills the mites, but it is the
    > FGMO and fogger that makes treatment time about 4 seconds
    > per hive...

    Yes, as I said:

    "So, fogged FGMO, as an inert carrier for thymol is said to "work",
    and there is no reason to think that this would not be a reasonable
    way to distribute thymol around a hive, assuming of course that
    you get your dose correct, and have the fogger set up properly."

    And if you get the fogger for free, and never have to fiddle with it
    at all, and have the ability to adjust it properly every time, and mix
    up your thymol with the FGMO correctly every time, then golly gee,
    maybe the cost per hive is 4 cents. But somehow I think that the
    phrase "your mileage will vary" applies here.

    > I haven't lost a hive to mites since I started fogging.

    Which version of the "method" worked for you, Iddee?
    On how many yards? How many hives per yard?
    And where's the mite-count data for those hives?

    Simple questions like these are never answered, but
    I'll ask them as a way of focusing the attention on
    tangible metrics, rather than intangible and extraordinary
    claims that fly in the face of controlled studies.

    [edit by mod]
    Last edited by Barry; 10-13-2007 at 08:43 AM.

  8. #28
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    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Iddee,
    I know you have only been on beesource since Jun 05, but here is a link that was the climax to many of the items I mentioned above. You will note my reply to Dr. R, after his famous, and often repeating threat of leaving the forum. If you went back and read the threads prior to him leaving, and prior to you becoming a member, you can see what I speak of. [edit by mod] I said today what I said two years ago. You can read Dr. R's comments and my reply.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ighlight=forum
    Last edited by Barry; 10-13-2007 at 08:44 AM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Hillsboro, Wisconsin, USA
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    1,672

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    Quote Originally Posted by BjornBee View Post
    MB,
    Being questioned was out of the question. Being questioned was beneath him. Being questioned was ignored.
    I don't think anyone likes to be endlessly questioned about subjects when one's viewpoint has been expressed in terms of a hypothesis. It gets to be cumbersome, and annoying.

    For those not of a scientific bent, a hypothesis simply uses a scientific methodology to discover an answer to a scientific problem. When I say "simply" - it is not really "simple". There's a lot of processing going on.

    You research - collect information from your own experiences, knowledge gained and verified from written resources, and experiments. Then, you identify a specific problem which can be solved using an experimental methodology. Finally, you can form a hypothesis -- a proposed solution to a problem based on your research and knowledge. You are going to have variables in your experimentation, which can usually be thwarted by the use of control groups. But, it is always an on-going study.

    Your specified conclusion to your project is always going to have nay-sayers, because hypotheses can't always be proven to be correct, as in this world, it is impossible to have perfect conditions. A hypothesis is an "educated guess". Just remember that this is an on-going study; questions can't always be immediately answered, although they do provide the incentive for further study, and are often helpful in changing the focus or methodology of the study.

    MM

    Oh, BjornBee - you avoided my further queries regarding Russian stock around the middle of August. I'm not holding that against you...

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lexington, KY, USA
    Posts
    504

    Default Dr. Rodriguez

    Simply amazing! I have much to thank for the efforts of the good Doctor. I use his methods and find them to help our bees. I am also light-years removed from some of the personal philosophies of many here, including those of the good Doctor. And still, I thank him and others who have made the efforts for better bee-keeping. As a hobbyist I may not see the consequences the large industrial operations, but then, the large operations have surely benefitted from insights gained by the occasional hobbyist......I want to wish all of you the best of successes and respect for one another.

  11. #31
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Alex,
    Amazing? I guess I could agree. I think its truly a blessing to hear opposing views, debate, both side of an issue, and open discussion. You wouldn't want anything less would you?

  12. #32
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    May 2007
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    Hillsboro, Wisconsin, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BjornBee View Post
    Now tell me...How may I help you!
    By learning how to spell.

    I don't know how sincere you are, since you misspelled or misused "except" (s/b accept) and "apoligies" (s/b apologies).

    Actually, Bjorn, I have become quite amused by your past diatribes, and take most of your statements cum grano salis.

    MM

  13. #33
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    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    I guess if the best (worst ?) there is, is a jab about my spelling, then I'm doing something right....

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lexington, KY, USA
    Posts
    504

    Default Dr. Rodriguez

    Hi Bjornbee et al, on the one hand it is amazing, on the other hand I have the benefit of seeing some things from another bench-mark as I have lived part of my life in an atmosphere where disagreement could see you under a fake shower head. Situations of this sort can give you different perspectives and I am thankful that I now have the opportunity to hear and express differing opinions without dire consequences.
    To keep on track, I just looked at our bee hives that are in our garden behind the house and the weakest team must have had some new-comers. They seem to be on orientation flights. I hope its is not robbing as they have feed on top and need all they can get. Earlier this summer I saw some with what I thought was K-wing. Now they are doing better. Was it the Thymol in the oil? I don't know but I am satisfied and hope that they will make it through the winter. Take care and have fun

  15. #35
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    Feb 2003
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    Columbia, South Carolina USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by MapMan View Post
    I don't think anyone likes to be endlessly questioned about subjects when one's viewpoint has been expressed in terms of a hypothesis. It gets to be cumbersome, and annoying.
    And yet, that is the game of science. It is not for everyone. The problem has been they way questions were answered if they ever were, not necessarily the quality of the information (though there are some questions about that as well).

    If you stick your neck out and want to proclaim that your treatment for X affliction is all that and a bag of chips, be prepared to back it up. If you are unwilling to do that, play another game. To expect anything other than that to happen is setting one self up for a frustrating time. If we believed everyone who came down the pike with the next silver bullet without a healthy dose of skepticism, where would we bee?

    For one I don't think much of the repeated questioning would have gone on for nearly as long as it did if the questions were answered cogently and with some modicum of scientific detachment. Some folks simply "own" an idea too much to be objective. Is that Dr. R? Maybe, I dunno for sure as I don't live in his skull, but I think some could effectively make that argument based on his behavior on this board.

    I think he means well, I think he definitely wants to help beekeepers and bees. I find it odd that he has to point that out all the time but hey, we all need something I guess, seems that all he really wants is some recognition for his efforts. I think his efforts on the behalf of bees and beekeeping are wonderful regardless of the efficacy or lack thereof of FGMO (if people only tried things we knew would work, where would we be?). If more people did that we would prolly solve more problems (though we would also have more failed experiments.) At the same token, all the effort in the world can't force something to be effective if it isn't.

    If the theory is sound, let it stand on it's own data. If not, let it go.

    Keith "if you don't occasionally get negative data, you aren't reaching enough" Benson
    Bee Sting Honey - So Good, It Hurts!

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Hillsboro, Wisconsin, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Benson View Post
    If the theory is sound, let it stand on it's own data. If not, let it go.
    That's just it - a theory is an explanation. I'm speaking of a hypothesis, which is an idea that undergoes testing, in order to come to some terms of understanding phenomena.

    Theories can be, and are often tested, supported, rejected and are sometimes modified based on foundations of new data, or sometimes research methodology which has surfaced to provide us with better ways to gather and understand the data.

    If Dr. Rodriguez is still in the formative stages of developing his process, he might not want to answer questions until he is able to fully understand the process and explain his technique. It's his prerogative.

    MM

  17. #37
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    Feb 2003
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    Columbia, South Carolina USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by MapMan View Post

    If Dr. Rodriguez is still in the formative stages of developing his process, he might not want to answer questions until he is able to fully understand the process and explain his technique. It's his prerogative.

    MM
    Mapman, we get the hypothesis/theory thing, I guess that wasn't my point.

    As to what I have quoted above, re-read what some folks have said here. The point is that he has never really presented this as a work in progress, and at every step of the way his work is presented as the solution. And then he goes on to modify it, all the while refusing to discuss why and reacting to any questions as to an insult.

    If the fog had worked as originally billed (results that have never been duplicated) there would have been no need for the chords. If the fog+chords worked as billed (results that have never been duplicated) there would have been no need for the thymol.

    The reality is that something doesn't really add up, at least not to the careful observer, and when you ask about that, well, it is taken poorly. If there is a decent explanation it is lost in the pleas of unjust injury to pious and humble man. At least some people see it that way. As always in beekeeping, YMMV.

    Keith
    Bee Sting Honey - So Good, It Hurts!

  18. #38
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    Oct 2001
    Location
    Mason, MI, USA
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    I still cannot believe the ubuse people feel toward Dr. R. It is easy to understand why he left. It is easy to DISRESPECT any one on the computer but most are cowards to do the same to a persons face. (they might get hurt)
    This is my opinion.
    Clint
    Clinton Bemrose<br />just South of Lansing Michigan<br />Beekeeping since 1964

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    i'd like to see a picture of the fogger in action, does an one out there have one?

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    New York City
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    Clint said:

    > I still cannot believe the ubuse people feel toward Dr. R. It is easy to
    > understand why he left.

    It is not "abusive" to ask questions, even pointed ones.
    It is not "abusive" to note that direct questions are being dodged.
    It is not "abusive" to repeat unanswered questions.
    It is not "abusive" to note that methods said to "work" suddenly change.
    It is not "abusive" to note the findings of researchers.
    It is not "abusive" to note a lack of a explanations of HOW something works.
    It is not "abusive" to express frustration at all of the above.
    It is not "abusive" to note that "Dr. R" has "quit the group" in a huff multiple times rather than answer simple questions.

    > It is easy to DISRESPECT any one on the computer but most are
    > cowards to do the same to a persons face. (they might get hurt)

    Hmmm... sounds like a threat of physical violence there, Clint.

    Sure you've got sufficient hand-to-hand training, and are in good
    enough shape to make a veiled threat of that sort? Last I heard,
    you had a close call with health issues, so I'm guessing that you've
    got someone else in mind to do the actual "hurting". Or, it could all
    just be bluster. That's a darned shame, as I haven't killed anyone
    in what seems like weeks.

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