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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
    Posts
    908

    Default

    Bjourn> I think a state by state listing as your pollination forum is set up

    i agree

    you could also set up one for people who sell nucs or hives. so local people could find a source and even get a chance to look in what they are buying before the buy. you could also set one up for queen breeders who are members here on beesource. i know a lot of times that they post in the for sale section, but i think many times people have queens or nucs that they would sell but don't post.

    >[Your not even on the pollination thread.]
    "Darned if you are, darned if you aren't

    I'm not on the list, because I'm not contributing what I don't believe in."

    i'm not on the list either, even though i pm'ed peggjam to ask if he could start one, and it was done within a day, because i thought it might prove to be valuable to those who pollinate. just as adding a section for people who sell honey, or even nucs, packages, hives, or queens could prove to be valuable for the people who wish to do so, even if i don't get on the list myself.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Loganville, GA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default

    A lot could be said here!

    First of all. Chef, Firefox and her sisters have built in spell checkers. And you can download an addon for IE here: http://www.iespell.com/ It doesn't check as you type and you have to call it when you're finished. But it works well. There are others I would guess. Hopefully save you some grief?

    I don't put much thought in what the competition is up to other than the prices. Not that I plan to match, exceed or undermine any of them. But I want to be in the ballpark. Quality and service will bring your people back! No doubt I will steal customers from them and they from me. When you can't sell your product anymore, maybe you need to rethink your strategy.

    As for an unfair advantage? What of the folks that don't have computers or knowledge of them at all. Even better, they couldn't care less. They seem to be content with their businesses.

    I'm going to sell like I buy. Given that price and quality are equal, then the service and personal connection wins. Given the latter is better, I will not balk at paying a little more to a point. Then there are those that money is no object to and yet others that want everything for nothing. I don't intend to give my products away nor do I intend to gouge anyone because I can.

    It's been a sorry year for honey here in GA and I'm all but sold out of this years honey, plus what I'll feed back to the bees. I haven't looked for new customers because I intend to have what little I have left for my regulars.

    Next year I'll certainly be looking to sell honey wholesale, provided it's at least half what is expected. So I would like to see a list of buyers! And I'll probably talk to most if not all of them. Not the first I come to.

    So I really couldn't care less who posts what here or anywhere else. If I don't find what I'm looking for here, I'll go somewhere else. That given, I'm all for posting here.

    Competition is just the way it works. And a good thing!! Advertising is a tiny part of getting customers. After that it's the salesman, sorry salesperson, that will make them a customer or not. Something a lot of folks and companies seem to have forgotten.

    I wish all of you the best of luck!! And that isn't just for you on the other side of the country, that includes any across the street. Competition can certainly be friendly!!

    No you can't barrow my customer list!! Duhhhhh

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle, Washington State
    Posts
    4,398

    Default

    Bizzy:

    Why the low punches? I see how it is... no more love

    Spelling is not my strong point! Why cant English be spelled like it sounds... like Italian or Spanish? I can spell things in Spanish or Italian bettern then I can in English!

    Thanks for pointing out my crappy spelling... but things for the link though!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    193

    Default

    Even if Beesource does organise a forum for honey buyers or honey sellers I'll probablly never use it as at the moment I have no import/export license.

    But I will give my opinion on what I think would work well.

    When Barry first posted I got the impression he wanted a list for where hobbyist or small time beekepeers could sell of excess honey, then I understood Bjorns idea to be a list where honey can be bought/sold locally. I think both are good ideas.

    I think Barrys and Bjorns suggestion could be solved with two seperate boards in The Exchange. Honey Buyers and Honey Sellers, basically set up with a list of states just like the Pollination Service. Any third party buyers must be clearly marked as a "non Beesource member". I think it would be best to have negotiations thru Pm and email and not be discussed on the board.

    The only problem I could see, is it could turn into a classifieds, with boards with Removals, Mead, Wax Processing, Extraction Services etc etc.

    I think someone who SOLELY relies on the board for selling their honey certainly does need to review their marketing strategies. But in my opinion a good marketing strategy is to have as many different outlets as possible, posting on the board would be another outlet, just like a business card in the shop window, an ad in the local rag, or your own website with flashing knobs an' all.

    Conclusion; It gets my vote.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Loganville, GA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default

    Not taking any punches Chef, love is still alive and well

    In your own words:
    I am game for this. It is hard to destinguish (sp?)
    the profit margin is minimal (sp?)

    You seemed a little bothered by it yourself. You've been in the chat room enough to know that most of us can barely spell our names! And really don't care. Getting your point across is all that matters! I agree English is getting so twisted and distorted it's unbelievable! Americans love to play on words and it's leaving it's own people behind in being able to speak their own language.

    Enough of that!!!

    Anyhow, if spelling were my only fault, life would be real good!!! So I'm not one to poke at anyones grammar or spelling!

    You Bee Cool....

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Wheatfield, IN
    Posts
    2,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NW IN Beekeeper View Post
    I kinda think the idea sucks.

    Its just another aspect of beekeeping that gives bias to the first person to post to that topic.

    Doesn't matter if I'm closer, have cheaper/better products, I'm going to loose consumers to the first person to post the topic.
    Buyers can/will be lazy and that is the net result when they are.

    There isn't any sort of rotation that makes everyone share the first posting location, and the buyer is going to bias to buy from the first person on the list.

    Its been done to swarm removals.
    Its been done to pollination.
    Might as well screw up honey sales for the average person too.

    Should a new member loose honey sales just because they joined a year after the topic was established and their post is at the bottom where it is never read?

    -Jeff
    Jeff,

    I'm struggling to understand how this negatively impacts you?
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    98

    Default Honey Board Advertising

    Barry,

    I really like Rob's idea of two boards set up in the "Exchange". One for sellers, and one for buyers. That way some can look at both boards to get their needs met. Breaking it out by state would help for a quicker "browse", but I think counties would be excessive. Perhaps break states into "North" "South" "East" and "West", or other geographical delineations. For people who work in multiple sections of the state, they could post in each quadrant. I would also echo Rob's concern that it could become a "Classifieds". Maybe a way to minimize that, and to restrict it to only members would be to require a "donation" to the website in exchange for posting rights. It could be a good source of income for the website, and as long as it were small enought, it would help reduce the "Ads" on the section, and serve as true Advertising. And all correspondence should take place through PM's or Email. I wouldn't want all my personal info out there for the world to see.

    And don't worry about the "competition" that it would create. Capitalism thrives on fair competition, and suffocates without it. We would not be competeing against Chinese honey on a board like this. But merely competeing against each other.

    It would be nice if there was a method to help everyone keep their names towards the top of the list as NW and Bjorn discussed. So that the top wasn't always the same, and there was some rotation to the advertising content. Maybe like Bjorn said, with a 90 day limit on the ad.

    Please don't everyone jump down my throat about this. These are only my opinions, and they stink just as much as everyone else's.

    --Jon D.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    jon d sezs:
    And don't worry about the "competition" that it would create. Capitalism thrives on fair competition, and suffocates without it. We would not be competeing against Chinese honey on a board like this. But merely competeing against each other.

    tecumseh politely ask:
    so pilgrim... what to keep me from driving my one ton down to beaumont picking up four barrels of chinese honey and repackaging and resaling it on this board? heck I could even use the ploy to reduce my competition to poverty by 'dumping' the product via some other bee keeper in grand rapids and creating the impression to your own customer base that you were gaffing them in regards to price.

    it is quite within the realm of possiblities that information that you supply to this forum in regards to the buying and selling of honey can and will be used againist you... you do not pocess maranda rights in this regards.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,333

    Default

    There will always be someone looking and willing to be deceptive and unethical. If we lived our lives trying to keep such people from their ways, we would live the victim life. I'm not going to do something good just because someone might do something bad with the good. If such acts were done as you mention, that would be illegal and not something I'm going to police.

    - Barry

  10. #30

    Default

    I think it is a great idea. I buy and sell other peoples honey all the time. Small beekeepers that love beekeeping but hate selling it I buy it and sell it. I have beekeepers that had a bad year and need to buy some to keep their store full of honey. I do not go after their stores with my own product just help them when they need it. Word of mouth on this board will shut down anyone not being ethical. I have learned who not to buy from or sell to.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    98

    Default Please Visit

    tecumseh sez:
    what to keep me from driving my one ton down to beaumont picking up four barrels of chinese honey and repackaging and resaling it on this board? heck I could even use the ploy to reduce my competition to poverty by 'dumping' the product via some other bee keeper in grand rapids and creating the impression to your own customer base that you were gaffing them in regards to price.

    Pilgrim (Jon D.) kindly replies:
    By all means please do. For three great reasons...
    1) I would love to get a chance to sit down and chat with a fellow beekeeper. Especially one from an exotic place like Texas. It would be nice to see what beekeeping is doing down there.
    2) I always welcome competition. You can't undercut me anymore that the local grocery stores do. If my customers wanted cheap, there is a myriad of other places (and beeks) to get honey from.
    3)Tecumseh historically is from the Great Lakes Region anyways. You could visit Detroit, site of one of his great battles.

    P.S. It is spelled "Miranda rights", not maranda
    P.P.S. What is a "gaff" after all?

    --Jon D.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    oh barry I don't even question your purposes..... and I don't really think what rainesridge or chef are doing is in anyway unethical as long as the customer understand what they are buying.

    I just say... go slow and careful with both hands on the helm.

    my 2 cents...

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default You mislabelled this thread

    Current market prices tell me their are no bulk honey buyers, there are bulk honey takers ,offering less than what north american honey is worth. These takers will take your honey for a meager sum , less than a 1.00/lb blend it with cheap foreign honey and sell it.
    They are all in competition with one another, for market share, for the lowest price on the shelf, and to see who can make the most profit.
    The industrial honey market, which accounts for nearly 50% or better of all honey sold in the USA is governed strictly by price alone.That big cereal maker don't care where his honey comes from or it's quality, he just wants to be able to say on the cereal box it's got honey in it, even if it's only 10 cents worth of honey .You see the word " honey" has a very good name with consumers and this helps sales.


    irwin
    in manitoba, canada, where there's 8 months of winter and 4 months of poor sledding

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by irwin harlton View Post
    Current market prices tell me their are no bulk honey buyers, there are bulk honey takers ,offering less than what north american honey is worth. These takers will take your honey for a meager sum , less than a 1.00/lb blend it with cheap foreign honey and sell it.
    They are all in competition with one another, for market share, for the lowest price on the shelf, and to see who can make the most profit.
    The industrial honey market, which accounts for nearly 50% or better of all honey sold in the USA is governed strictly by price alone.That big cereal maker don't care where his honey comes from or it's quality, he just wants to be able to say on the cereal box it's got honey in it, even if it's only 10 cents worth of honey .You see the word " honey" has a very good name with consumers and this helps sales.


    irwin
    in manitoba, canada, where there's 8 months of winter and 4 months of poor sledding
    Do you expect differently? Isn't this true w/ just about any commodity? Certainly you don't expect things to be different w/ honey, do you?

    Honey packers are in the BUSINESS of making money by selling honey. If you, or anyone else, doesn't like the price that they are quoted by the packers try packing it yourself and see how much you get and how much it costs you to produce, package and distribute your own honey.

    If you aren't willing to do that then let's stop boo-hooing about what someone else is willing to pay us for our product and get on with enjoying our livelyhood or, probably most of y'all, our hobby.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default reply

    "Do you expect differently? Isn't this true w/ just about any commodity? Certainly you don't expect things to be different w/ honey, do you?

    Honey packers are in the BUSINESS of making money by selling honey. If you, or anyone else, doesn't like the price that they are quoted by the packers try packing it yourself and see how much you get and how much it costs you to produce, package and distribute your own honey.

    If you aren't willing to do that then let's stop boo-hooing about what someone else is willing to pay us for our product and get on with enjoying our livelyhood or, probably most of y'all, our hobby."

    Yes, I did expect things to be different this fall and maybe they will be yet
    Perhaps you should check what the price of corn, wheat, oil, and gold have done in the past 2-3 months, many commodities have increased dramatically and inflation is rising steadly
    I have been following Ron Phipps aricles in the ABJ and it is quite possible that a shortage of honey will occur.
    I also pack and sell a little honey,about xxxx cases a year so I know the bottom line on that.
    Can't sell it all that way, believe me I'D LOVE TOO so I get to deal with the packers.
    Like any buissness , it's much more fun when you make money.I would say that the current prices offered do not reflect a decent profit for producing bulk honey in north america.
    There are certain risks invoved in producing a honey crop, weather being a very big one,
    and a good crop or a bumper crop is not obtained every year.
    This honey buissness may be a hobby for you but I make my living out of it, maybe you should try it

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,235

    Default

    [QUOTE=irwin harlton;267558
    This honey buissness may be a hobby for you but I make my living out of it, maybe you should try it[/QUOTE]

    I believe that you and I are in the same boat, making a living wise. At least I've been trying to. I'm sure an accountant would advise me to try something else. I may not be getting what I want for my honey, but there are other benefits that keep me trying. I imagine that this may be true for you too?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default Yes we are in the same boat

    Honey prices are going up AND

    "A rising tide lifts all boats"

    and you are right there are alot of other benefits in this buissness. Getting to work very close to nature and God's wonderfull gift to humanity the honey bee, being just one.

    Sometimes the bottom line just doesn't seem that important in the grand scheme of life


    Irwin
    ...... getting alittle older, not necessiarly wiser, but loving what I do....... I keep bees.

  18. #38

    Default

    interesting discussion..thanks for sharing your knowledge

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    McGraw,NY,USA
    Posts
    580

    Default

    Irwin I think you are pretty much on track with this comment
    "Current market prices tell me their are no bulk honey buyers, there are bulk honey takers ,offering less than what north american honey is worth. These takers will take your honey for a meager sum , less than a 1.00/lb blend it with cheap foreign honey and sell it."
    With prices for Bees and equipment as well as operating costs ( gas ), winter losses etc going up every year yet the large packers holding the price of bulk honey down for obivious reasons. I would suggest that they (large packers) are
    price fixing in order to enhance profits. It is to their advantage to offer lower prices when a small operation needs the cash flow to expand their operation. If they get a small beeks harvest they dont make as much but from a beek that produces 10-15 barrels there is a substantial amount of money to be made . You can do the math . I am a small beek but by no means am I a simple beek, having negotiated several labor agreements I have leaned to count the beans.
    I did not intend to stray from the original topic. I think it would be a good idea to list honey buyers , and sellers not only for the purposes of the board but to offer our customers a better variety of honeys. I hope that this idea will not be picked apart by people ....Rick Alexander
    Turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default market

    Too much buying power is held by a small number of large sized packers.They can manipulate the market.They stick together tighter than a flock of sheep
    Producers are still paying for the big price paid to producers in 2002. This fall
    they literally stole the Argentina crop, which was off 30% but prices only increased 10-12 % and white honey was in short supply.
    Packers wharehouses are full this 2007 fall, they are still buying cheap domestic honey and paying alittle more for it elsewhere.
    US 2007 crop is off 14% from 2006 crop and 2006 crop was the worst ever.( SOURCE- bee culture magazine)
    Inflation is going to rage up into high double digits from this economic mess.
    Imports to the US are going to cost more.
    Accurate information is one the few powers producers have.
    Mid US Honey Producers hotline is one source, 763 658 4193

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