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Thread: Taktic

  1. #101
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    May 2010
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    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
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    532

    Default Re: Taktic

    well since you bumped it ... It's not 3 years yet but we have Apivar in our hives and the bees are fit and healthy with hardly a varroa mite in sight

    I love my Apivar

  2. #102
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    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Taktic

    Anybody read the CAP article in this month's Bee Culture?
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  3. #103
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    Default Re: Taktic

    The original strips were pulled by the manufacturer because some lots were expired and still used by beekeepers. When they get too old, or possibly overheated, they turn yellow and oily. Powdery white strips are safe. Some dishonest beekeepers put them in hives after the recall looking for a payout. Amitraz strips are 3.3 percent.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  4. #104
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Taktic

    What I had heard ages ago was that the manufacturer stopped making the strips because beekeepers sued them over dead colonies. Now I read in Bee Culture's CAP Article that the permit ran out and there wasn't enough revenue to make production worthwhile.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  5. #105
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    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
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    Default Re: Taktic

    Well guess what kids. Was at a bee seminar last Sat. And a local equipment distributer said a new formula of Amitraz will be on the market this year 2013 getting a section 18 exemption here in Fl. Info was corroborated by 3 Fl bee inspectors then we will have Monsatto’s remembee out soon Oh boy can’t wait. Toxic soup
    I’m really not that serious

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Taktic

    Don't like it, don't use it. You probably don't need to. Go in bees.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  7. #107
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    havana fl
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    Default Re: Taktic

    I'm not going to use it.
    I’m really not that serious

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    VENTURA, California, USA
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    3,604

    Default Re: Taktic

    Quote Originally Posted by frazzledfozzle View Post
    Well Ted I will let you know next year if all our bees die as that will be our third year treating with Apivar.
    FYI: This URL is worth reading and its well documented.
    http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/personne...s/Berry109.pdf

    Amitraz degrades rapidly because of exposure
    to sunlight (UV), low pH, metabolism by bacteria and
    solution properties. Degradation usually occurs within
    two to three weeks, and is not very stable in honey, which
    is good news. The bad news is the break down products
    or metabolites which form are 2, 4-dimethylaniline (2, 4-
    DMA) and 2, 4- dimethyl phenyl formamide (2, 4-DMPF).
    These products are apparently more environmentally
    stable, plus the 2, 4-DMA has mutagenic (causes changes
    to DNA), oncogenic (malignant transformation – tumors)
    and genotoxic properties (genetic mutations) (Osano
    et al., 2002). Of course this is dependent on the levels
    present.
    Because of mounting complaints from beekeepers
    about problems with queens (increasing supersedure
    rates, and colonies unable to re-queen themselves) researchers
    began investigating the sub-lethal effects of
    coumaphos and fl uvalinate on queens and drones.
    In 1999, Rinderer’s group investigated the effect of
    Apistan™ on drones. Their fi ndings showed a 9.4% reduction
    of drone survival in colonies treated with Apistan™.
    Other negative effects were observed as well: lower
    weights, mucus gland and seminal vesicle weights and
    the number of spermatozoa (Rinderer et al. 1999).
    In 2002 a group of researches from across the U.S.
    examined the effects of queens reared in wax exposed to
    varying concentrations of fl uvalinate and coumaphos.
    Queens weighed signifi cantly less when exposed to high
    doses of fl uvalinate than those reared in lower concentrations
    or controls. Even though these concentrations
    were higher than doses beekeepers would apply, the
    misuse or accumulation of fl uvalinate in wax could lead
    to these higher concentrations within colonies. They also
    examined other effects of coumaphos and found that
    during queen development, body and ovary weight were
    both lower. Also, when one coumaphos strip was placed
    into colonies with developing queens, they suffered high
    mortality along with physical abnormalities and atypical
    behavior. Both of these fi ndings conclude that when
    A comb drawn out from the plastic strip.
    January 2009 BEE CULTURE 35
    fl uvalinate or coumaphos are applied during queen development
    there is a signifi cant negative impact on the
    queen’s health (Haarmann et al. 2002).
    Two years later the effects of coumaphos on queen
    rearing was again examined. Known concentrations of
    coumaphos were applied to queen cups in which queen
    larvae were being reared. Queens exposed to 100 mg/kg
    of coumaphos (which, by the way, is the U.S. tolerance
    level allowed in beeswax) were rejected by colonies 50%
    of the time. If that exposure was increased 10 fold to
    1000 mg/kg there was complete rejection (Pettis et al.
    2004). There are two trains of thought here as to how
    the coumaphos may affect the queens. One the miticides
    are being passed around the colony from bee to bee and
    from bee to the nurse bees which are attending the developing
    larvae. The toxin is making direct contact with
    the developing queen. The bees detect this and therefore
    reject the cell or emerging virgin. The second thought is
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  9. #109
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    May 2010
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    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
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    Default Re: Taktic

    BEES4U most of the above quoted article has nothing to do with Apivar it's all about Apistan and Coumaphos I dont see the relavance?

    Apivar has been used in beehives in some countries of Europe for years with no ill effect It's only when dumb arse beekeepers started making up their own concoctions using Tactic that there was problems... Think about it, making up a homebrew with a chemical used for treating a different animal and throwing it in a beehive then turning around a few years later and saying it's killing my bees?

    How smart is that?

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Taktic

    Quote Originally Posted by frazzledfozzle View Post
    BEES4U most of the above quoted article has nothing to do with Apivar it's all about Apistan and Coumaphos I dont see the relavance?

    Apivar has been used in beehives in some countries of Europe for years with no ill effect It's only when dumb arse beekeepers started making up their own concoctions using Tactic that there was problems... Think about it, making up a homebrew with a chemical used for treating a different animal and throwing it in a beehive then turning around a few years later and saying it's killing my bees?

    How smart is that?
    This data might make you a little nervous.
    Journal of Apicultural Research
    Vol.44 (3) pp. 124 - 125
    DOI 10.3896/IBRA.1.44.3.07
    Date September 2005
    Article Title Resistance to amitraz and flumethrin in Varroa destructor populations from Veracruz, Mexico
    Author(s) Sóstenes R Rodríguez-Dehaibes, Gabriel Otero-Colina, Violeta Pardio Sedas and Juan A Villanueva Jiménez
    Abstract Dose response curves were determined for amitraz and flumethrin for Varroa destructor collected near Veracruz city, Mexico. Both pesticides were sprayed at known concentrations on female mites using a Burgerjon’s tower. Probit analysis was performed to calculate mean lethal concentrations (LC50). We estimated the LC50 for amitraz to be 0.526 mg/litre; this estimate is 2.3-times higher than the LC50 baseline established nine years earlier in Mexico. The LC50 for flumethrin was estimated as 0.286 mg/litre, 327-times higher than the LC50 baseline, suggesting the development of resistance.
    Keywords Varroa destructor, Mexico
    Download
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  11. #111
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    Sep 2009
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    Millbury, MA, USA
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    Default Re: Taktic

    Which is exactly that one should use 2 different treatments in spring and fall, should slow resistance considerably.

  12. #112
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    May 2010
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    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
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    Default Re: Taktic

    BEES4U

    Nope that data dosn't make me nervous at all

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Taktic

    Here's a good data report:

    A Review of Treatment Options for Control of Varroa Mite in New Zealand

    PDF version (151 KB)http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/pests...nt-options.htm

    Trade Name(s): Apivar

    Active Ingredient: Amitraz (500mg/strip)

    Chemical Class: Amadine

    Method of Application: Apivar consists of a plastic polymer embedded with amitraz, a contact miticide. The strips should be placed in the hive with one strip used for every 5 frames of bees in each brood chamber. The strip is hung between the frames, with the frames separated slightly so that both sides of the strip come into contact with the bees. The bees rub against the strips as they move through the brood chamber, and then pass the chemical on to other bees as they rub up against each other in the hive. The strips should be removed after 6 weeks.

    Amitraz has also been used for varroa control in the past applied as a spray (Mitac), and as a fumigant impregnated on potassium nitrate soaked filter paper and ignited on the bottom board (Taktik).

    Effectiveness: Amitraz was one of the earliest chemicals tested for varroa control, with studies dating back to 1979. Early studies are reviewed by Merrington106. More recently, amitraz in plastic strips has been shown to produce varroa mortality of 97-99%6. Amitraz sprayed once and twice killed 90 and 96% of mites respectively 93. Various concentrations of amitraz killed over 98% of mites, and fumigation strips killed over 99% of mites60.

    Adverse Effects: A preparation of amitraz (Apivarol) was found to increase mortality of 1-3 day old larvae (61% vrs. 83% for control)4. A fumigation strip of amitraz caused some bees to leave their hive and form clusters98. Fumigation strips also caused high adult bee mortality in package bees60.

    Operator Safety: Amitraz is classified by the EPA in the US as Class III – Slightly Toxic. There are unlikely to be operator safety issues for amitraz in the plastic strip form.

    LD50: Rats – 523-800mg/kg (oral); >1600mg/kg (dermal)

    Residues: Amitraz is a fat-soluble compound, but unlike other such compounds used as varroacides, it is volatile and unstable in honey, degrading in 3-4 weeks76. Amitraz has therefore not been found as a residue in honey95. Beeswax appears to accelerate the degradation of amitraz, with the product not being detectable within hours of application140. Amitraz was not detectable when added at 100ppm in beeswax foundation, although fluvalinate and coumaphos were present in levels similar to the amount added51.

    MRL’s: Official maximum residue levels for amitraz in honey range from 0.01ppm in Italy, Germany and Switzerland to 1ppm in the US. The EU level is 0.2ppm140. No MRL has been established for amitraz in beeswax, since the substance has never been found as a residue in beeswax.

    Resistance: Amitraz was found to be ineffective in killing mites in the former Yugoslavia, even though the product provided good mite control in the 4 previous years. The mites were believed to be resistant to amitraz34. Amitraz resistance was also confirmed in a population of mites in the US that showed resistance to fluvalinate38. Amitraz resistance has been shown in laboratory assays108

    Cost: Between NZ$8.10 and NZ$14.95 per treatment, based on French prices (assuming 10 frames of brood, and therefore 2 strips per hive). According to the manufacturer, the low end price may be influenced by government subsidies.

    Labour costs for Apivar are minimal, with two visits per hive 6 weeks apart. One or both visits could be incorporated into normal hive management. Estimated time necessary for application has been determined at 2 minutes per beehive per visit for strip products. Spray application would be 21 minutes per beehive. No figures are given for fumigant products50.

    Impediments to Registration: While there is substantial data available on the use of amitraz as both a spray and fumigant, there appears to be far less on the efficacy of strips. Because of good dosage control, however, the strips are likely to provide better efficacy without side effects on bee behaviour and mortality. Apivar is registered for use in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Belgium and France. There is therefore likely to be sufficient efficacy data available to meet registration requirements in New Zealand should the manufacturer or an importer choose to register the product.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  14. #114
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    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
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    Default Re: Taktic

    Can you highlight what part of this report concerns you?

    I dont see where the problem is ?

  15. #115
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Indianapolis IN 46227
    Posts
    285

    Default Re: Taktic

    Glad to see this thread resurrected.
    I've recently been emailing larger outfits looking for 50-100 hives. When inquiring about mite control used, the name Taktic is referred to. When asked how it was used, I get no reply. I search here only to find Barry has deleted specific use messages as "off-label".

    So am I to assume Taktic is a well kept secret only used by large outfits? If it is keeping them in business, can it really be so bad? I see other treatments as too expensive or time consuming to be practical for operations over 50 hives. With no clear and proven method to eradicate mites, does it not make sense to mimic the practices of those who are successfully keeping thousands of hives alive over a long period?

    Baffled in Indy.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,458

    Default Re: Taktic

    Well Don, I operate one of those larger outfits and I don't use it. Our primary source of income is honey production and for that reason using any substance that can potentially taint your honey crop should be done with care as irresponsible use of chemicals in bee hives could potentially devastate the image that honey now has in the marketplace. According to much of what I read it does degrade more quickly than other chemicals such as fluvalinate or coumaphous and if applied at the right time and at the right concentration its probably all right but I am only guessing and my fear is that most of the folks that are using it are just guessing as well. How many large operations use it? Frankly I don't know, it's the elephant in the room so to speak. I think the majority of commercial beekeepers are pretty smart folks who see the dangers and proceed with care but I worry about some whose thinking is that if a little of something is good that a lot has got to be better. The good thing, though, is that the large operations inevitably sell to the large packers who, seeing the potential liability, are testing honey much more thoroughly than they once did. Many additionally require producers to sign statements about the origin of their honey. I think the approval of Apivar (Aamitraz is its active ingredient) is probably a good thing in that it is a measured dosage with a label telling how it should be used. I am not sure if I will ever use it, I would want to know a bit more about it and whether residues could be a problem. I firmly believe there is a phenomena in mite treatment where less can be better and I have seen success in recent years doing just that. I'm not trying to get preachy with many of my good friends in the industry who I greatly respect but just trying to remind folks to think twice before they put chemicals in their hives.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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