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Lets make soap

56K views 49 replies 26 participants last post by  EllieBr 
#1 ·
I was thinking,dangerous I know, but what if we beesource members designed a honey-beeswax soap recipe? We could brain storm and come up with a truly unique soap and label it as your basic beesource honey beeswax all natural soap. We could market it as such and people would get a truly nice bar of soap, beesource some advertisement and we a few dollars; plus it could be a good excersize in how to make cold process soap for those that haven't done it before. Maybe this isn't the proper forum?
What do you think?
 
#2 ·
Soap making is a truly interesting process. My wife and I currently make cold process soap using honey and beeswax. Without a doubt it makes a truly fantastic product.
There are of course drawbacks with all good things. Realize of course that you will not have instant gratification due to the curing time necessary. Finding the proper fragrances can also be a challenge and lastly the education part of marketing can be time consuming and emotionally taxing. How many people are really willing to pay 4+ dollars for a bar of soap when you can prurchase a whole box of soap for the same amount from the store.
After making soap for several years now, I can say that we will never go back. But it ain't easy and it ain't always fun!

Kurt
 
#3 ·
I tried a honey-beeswax soap for the first time (first time soap). It was interesting, I'm a bit too much of an experimenter, and ended up with a soft slimy soap that works great for removing grease and oil.

So when I work on the cars it works great. But not too many mechanics willing to shell out the cash for soap that smells nice and leaves their hands supple and soft.:rolleyes:

Rick
 
#5 ·
the business of soap

The wife and I have been making the soap for four years now. You are right about the fact people balk at $4.75 per a 6 oz. bar of soap at first. Then it's your job to educate them about all natural soap, the one thing we did was to get it in their hands. We gave samples gave door prises, gave gift baskets of honey, lip balm, lotion bar and the soap to charities events. Little by little poeple started to tell their friends and now we have a good little soap and lip balm business. And the neat thing about it we were out there selling our honey anyway. We're not getting rich by any means but it does help our honey business and we benifit from having the soap in the bath all the time. I think if your doing county fairs, flee markets and the festivals you would benifit from a varity of products from the hive.

Lets start with what ingredients we want to use.
beeswax and honey (of course)
Shea butter
sweet almond oil
coconut oil
distilled water
lye

anything else, remember let's make this special ;)
 
#6 ·
There are many that are willing to pay $4 a bar for soap. But it also depends on the area where you are.

I know people in the DC area that buy it constantly at $4 to $5 a bar and believe it to be a real deal for them to get 5 for $15. much the same in other areas. The Grand Rapids area also brings $4 pretty easily.

In the Atlanta burbs, I have somewhat of a tougher tine getting it. I have on occasion, but can get $3 easily. And I know plenty of folks that love the soap and like you say are not willing to pay the price when they can buy (detergent bars) at Wally World for .80 cents a bar.

I am putting somewhere from $1.30 to $1.60 into my bars. Depending on what I'm making. Doubling my money in the sale makes me perfectly happy. But then I come from the school of value based pricing, not todays all the market will bare pricing. Sorry, I don't agree.

Just the same, the folks that are going to buy your soaps are going to be the folks that care about what they put on there skin. They are likely to be the same folks that care about what goes into their bodies too. They are willing to pay more for what they feel to be better for their health than the garbage in many cases, you find on the shelves or from a hidden origin. Usually hidden for a reason.

I don't pinch pennies when I'm making my soaps. I use better than good materials. I don't do organic ingredients, but you certainly can. They are very expensive, but if you have the base for selling them......

I don't use any kind of synthetic ingredients. Most people that are allergic to soaps, are because of those ingredients. No fragrances here. Only essential oils for scent. They can be more challenging, but far better in many ways. Some folks even prefer no scents.

Friday a man ask me for a dozen bars of soap. It doesn't bother him in the least that they are $3 a bar. And I didn't have any problem telling him what was in them and what they cost me to make. I make a product that I feel god about and using. And what I feel is a fair price. Anyone that would expect me to give them away. Needs a brain overhaul! But there are plenty of them too! :)

Back off on the wax Scads. It makes a bar harder which makes the bar last longer, but to much kills the foam. Slime is the result.

I kinda don't see the point of honey in cold process soap?? Maybe in milled soap, which I haven't played with much. (basically melt and pour, only a thousand times better)
 
#10 ·
This is a very good site for basic soap recipes. Thanks for sharing! The Honey soap would be a good recipe to start with. There isn't anything there that you can't find in a grocery store. You could fortify it with the royal jelly but I'm not sure what benifit you would derive from it. Moistureizer cream is where you could use and benifit from royal jelly. But if you did opt to use it wait till the trace before you put it in.

So I for one vote for this recipe
 
#11 ·
Why is lard or rendered fat used for in soap???
In lye soap there is basically two ingredients lye and fat. In the old days a ready source of fat was tallow or animal fat, lard. Today we know that animal fat cloggs the pores of the skin causing skin irrations and an oily film that the skin can't readily absorb. So now we use better sources of fat in vegetable oils, and butters, beeswax. There is recepies out there that still call for tallow but I wouldn't use them.
 
#9 ·
Soap?

I'm a beekeeper and would like to make myself soap? I know absolutely nothing about what makes soap, soap. Antibacterial\Abrasive? Hot\Cold process, Milled soap, which is best? Are there any more methods? Ideally I won't have to buy anything. I'm set in the honey\wax department. What else is needed. I'm not sure what I could use as an abrasive, maybe all the crap under my screened bottom boards? My grandfather once told me they used to make soap from wood ashes.
 
#12 ·
I'm a beekeeper and would like to make myself soap? I know absolutely nothing about what makes soap, soap. Antibacterial\Abrasive? Hot\Cold process, Milled soap, which is best? Are there any more methods? Ideally I won't have to buy anything. I'm set in the honey\wax department. What else is needed. I'm not sure what I could use as an abrasive, maybe all the crap under my screened bottom boards? My grandfather once told me they used to make soap from wood ashes.
Hi Mr. betterbeekeeping, ;) soap is really sonething I think you would find fun to make. The basic lye soap grandma made was a cold process soap. The simple act of mixing lye in to a fat solution and blending it together causes a chemical reaction called saponfication. Once blended to a consistency of heavy cream pour it into a wooden or stainless steel mold and it will set into a cake in about 24 to 36 hours. Then you can cut into bars. The bars are the left to age or cure for about 4 weeks before you can use them.

There is many processes and types but for making a nice soap, but at home, cold process is really what you want to do. As far as using wood ash, grandma rendered her sodium hydroxide, lye, from washing her wood ashes. Soaking wood ash in water causes the lye to leach out of the ashes. Problem here is your never sure how strong the lye content is, hence grandma made soap that was mabe mild with one batch and another would burn your skin.

You can use anything in your soap as an exfoilent. Sand, dirt, but I would steer you to something milder like oatmeal or coffee grounds or dried herbs. Use something others wouldn't feel shy about putting on their skins.

Hope this helps,
Let's make soap.
 
#13 ·
#15 ·
Cold process is nice stuff. No, wax and or honey is not a fat source and are not saponfied. Wax is an additive that hardens the soap only. It serves no other purpose. Honey as you know is water and sugar. You are probably aware of the healing properties of honey. The main healing property of honey as I understand it, is the ability to prevent air and contaminates from entering a wound? And I believe other elements contained in raw honey. Someone can jump in her and correct me if I'm wrong. In making your soap, you will bring your ingredients to near 110 degrees before mixing. You will be cooling your lye to that temp. After trace and it's poured up in the mold(s). It will again heat up. In a very caustic solution until the saponification process is complete.

That in mind plus given the fact that the dilution factor of such a small amount of honey being used. Maybe you can see why I don't see the significance of using honey? It sounds good I suppose...... Please if someone can disprove my thoughts?!?! DO

Oils are not very cheap! Please do do your reading and get what you can here and anywhere else before you get started. Start out simple. Until you get the feel for it, and see how the whole process works. hopefully avoid your first batch turning out being a big blob. Not that I would know anything about that. :rolleyes: It's one of those things I feel that has it's learning curve for sure, but not all that difficult and very rewarding, if only making the soap for yourself. I love using my own soap!!

Anyway, here's a big hit for you guys! This is one of the best places I know of for oils. Sure shop around, but these folks have good prices and they don't rip you off on shipping to make up for the price. Never had a problem with an order yet!

http://www.soaperschoice.com/
 
#17 ·
The main healing property of honey as I understand it, is the ability to prevent air and contaminates from entering a wound?
Wounds getting exposed to air is a good thing. The oxygen prevents anaerobic bacteria from taking off and producing gangrene. I think the healing property of honey has more to do with honey being a supersaturated solution. This dries out the bacteria enough to kill them or slow their growth. I've heard of hospitals also getting good results with plain old sugar syrup. However honey also has a lower pH and produces hydrogen peroxide which also helps, and if the nectar source has intrinsic medicinal qualities that helps too.

But, seriously, it's hard enough getting chocolate syrup out of sheets... ;)
 
#18 ·
Thanks Apuuli!!!

You know now that you mention it, I can remember some of what you said. Man, if only I had someone to follow me around all the time and remind me of what I should remember!!!!

The absolute worse thing about passing 40 has been memory loss!!!! It drives me completely crazy!!! I figure by the time I'm ready for social security I'll be sitting in a rocking chair somewhere, playing with my lower lip, not remembering I should even care the feds aren't giving me my money!!!! :D
 
#19 ·
Quote: "In lye soap there is basically two ingredients lye and fat. In the old days a ready source of fat was tallow or animal fat, lard. Today we know that animal fat cloggs the pores of the skin causing skin irrations and an oily film that the skin can't readily absorb. So now we use better sources of fat in vegetable oils, and butters, beeswax. There is recepies out there that still call for tallow but I wouldn't use them."

Sorry, but I absolutely disagree. All oils, whether vegetable or animal source, are made of the same 8 fatty acids in varying proportions. A mollecule of stearic, or any other fatty acid doesn't know if it comes from a cow or a shea nut. The chemical composition is the same either way. Any oil that is solid at room temperature has the potential to clog pores in a leave-on product such as lotion, but not when washed off in minutes. And beeswax is certainly more solid and difficult to wash off than lard or tallow.

There was a popular soap making book by Susan Miller Cavitch that maligned the use of animal fats in soaps, without any scientific basis. The nasty animal fats from rendering plants that are used in commercial soaps make a soap that isn't very special, but you don't hear about hoardes of people breaking out from Dove and Ivory. Both have a reputation as very mild gentle soaps and are often recommended by dermatologists - main ingredient in both is tallow (sodium tallowate) Food grade animal fats actaully make a very nice soap, and the same logic that dictates local honey is better than foreign, also correlates into obtaining soaping oils locally from small farms rather than from half a world away.

Here's a link where you can study and compare the fatty acid compostion of various oils. http://www.soapcalc.com/calc/oillist.asp
 
#25 ·
It's good to disagree




Actually, I'm glad you disagree, I'm by no means a chemist, I'm just a beekeeper who has spent a lot of time playing around with soaps and fregrances, and I'm still learning. I think we do pick up biases backed up without fact from stuff we read on the internet and in books that are quoted as gospel. I do hope there are people here wanting to learn to make soap and the more helpful and honest information we can supply the better the experience.
Soap making is a fun thing to do, and the more input the better for all.
Thanks beaglady
 
#21 ·
>>>The absolute worse thing about passing 40 has been memory loss!!!!

After passing 50 I no longer worry about forgetting were I put my glasses. If I start to forget that I wear glasses, I will know that I am in real trouble.

My mother stopped making homemade soap (lye and pig fat/lard) when I was about 6 years old. And I still remeber that it frequently burned the skin.

I now plan to make some of the honey soap and take her a sample. She is now 94 but paybacks will still be fun.
 
#22 ·
Ok, now taking the link Johnbeeman gave for honey soap ie:

12 oz veg shortening
4 oz coconut oil
1 oz beeswax
1 cup distilled water
2 oz lye
1/4 cup honey
Mix lye and water, allow to cool. melt vegetable shortening. Over a double boiler, melt wax and coconut oil together and keep warm. When shortening is 120* and lye is 100*, pour lye mixture into shortening and stir until tracing occurs. Pour wax and oil mixture into soap mixture stirring constantly ( the mixture will get VERY thick with
the addition of the beeswax mix) When the beeswax mixture is completely blended, stir in the honey and pour into molds. Unmold after 24-48 hours. Allow to age for 3 weeks.

I took this recipe and ran it throught the lye calculater at Majestic Mountians Sage web site to find if the lye content was proper for soap with a 6% discount in lye. Or soap that I need because I have very sensitive skin. The calculations showed to use 4 to 6 ounces of water and 2.28 ounces of lye for the lye solution for a 6% lye discount.

All the ingredients here are readily found in the grocery store, for lye I use Red Devil Drain Cleaner but double check the ingredients on the can. It must be 100% sodium hydroxide, I've been told but haven't seen it that Red Devil is being reformulated, because of meth users? I don't know for sure but what you want is 100% sodium hydroxide. Take very good precautions with lye, cover eyes with a splash shield, you can get one from Menards or Home Depot in the paint depts. for about $7.00 and your eyes are too precious to screw around without protecting them. You need to protect your skin too but it will heal, eyes don't heal well. Also when mixing the lye to the distilled water always ADD THE LYE TO THE WATER, Otherwise you will make a voilent valcano. When the lye solution is mixed expect the tempeture rise to 175 degrees F. and a caustic gas will burn your nose. Carefully mix the lye into the water and leave the room as soon as it is mixed in . Ventilate the area is also helpful. The gassing will only last a few minuites but it's the most dangerous part of making the soap. I use only glass pyrex measures to mix the lye solution and monitor the temps with a candy thermometer.

Also please measure by weight and not volume. Most failures come from miss measures. A very good digital 3# scale can be purchased online for $30 from myweigh.com.

I mix and heat my gats, oils and butters in a stainless steel double boiler, a small one can be had at Wal-mart.

A nice mold can be fashioned from a cleaned out milk carton.Just pour in your soulution and after two days cut the carton away and slice you bars. from your block.

When you have all the ingredients and your face shield scales,and candy thermometer your ready to start, but before you start please review the instructions found here:

http://www.thesage.com/recipes/recipes.php3?.State=Display&id=15
 
#24 ·
Red Devil doesn't make plain lye anymore. The 'drain opener' has added ingredients that you won't want in soap. You can get lye at many True Value hardware stores - Rooto brand, or at Lowes, Roebic brand, labeled heavy duty drain opener. At Lowes, it's in the plumbing department, not by the cleaning products. Just look for 100% sodium hydroxide on the label.
 
#26 · (Edited)
While reading around, trying to learn more about making soap, I came across this.

"Some natural ingredients will harden a soap, while negatively affecting a soap’s ability to clean, moisturize or rinse. Like Beeswax. Beeswax is a natural ingredient, but in our opinion, coating your skin with beeswax so water repels off your slick skin is not really what you’re looking for. Beeswax also inhibits lather"

Sounds true?
Is beeswax really not a very good ingredient in soap making?
 
#27 ·
I've been making soap for about 5 years now, and sell it at craft shows & a local farmers market. One of my basic resipes uses both beeswax & honey. Both ingredients bring a bit of trickiness to the soapmaking process. Beeswax can make your soap set before it has traced. Honey can make it over heat and expand out of the mold.

Both are manageable, but I'd suggest learning to make a simple basic soap first, then, once you've got the process mastered, you can start adding things like fragrance, or honey or beeswax. This is a simple recipe that uses oils that are inexpensive and can be found at the grocery store, so it makes a good 'practice' soap. http://www.millersoap.com/soapallveg.html#Cocanolive

My only suggestion is to use an online lye calculator to resize it into a 2 or 3 pound batch. Its a good habit to check any published recipe with a lye calculator rather than just trust it to be correct. Smaller batches also let you experiment a lot more and still not be over run with soap.
 
#28 ·
I went back to the http://www.soapnuts.com/ website to read more about cold process soap making. I found that their recipe main page contains links to recipes to lip balms and face creams in addition to all the other info. Many of these recipes use both honey and beeswax. Theree are other links to other suppliers that include lip balm tubes, cream jars, etc.

http://www.soapnuts.com/indexnook.html

Some buzy bee could easily setup a cottage industry.
 
#29 ·
The soapnuts site also has a page on proper labeling, with a link to the FDA requirements.

Basically, if you sell soap, and make no performance claims such as 'good for acne', 'cures dry skin', etc, then you do not have to list ingredients. Listing ingredients is still a good idea though, so customers with allergies can avoid troubling ingredients.

Lip balms, salves, creams, etc are considered cosmetics and are required to have the ingredients listed on the label.
 
#30 ·
I wish I could make my own Aveeno line of soap, lotions and body washes. That stuff is soo expensive and it's the only thing I can use due to eczema issues. Oh well.....
 
#35 ·
Yes you can but now your getting into soap design. Each oil has it's own sap value. If you were to substitute oils or change ratios in recipes then you need to recalculate how much lye you need using the lye calculators on some web sites already cited in this thread. ie soapers choice or majestic mountian sage. When first starting out you would be better server with known quality recipies, and even then always check lye content against a lye calculator
 
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