Bees and queen absconded from mating nuc

**CWBees** · 07-17-2007, 08:36 PM

Yesterday I brushed worker bees into two mating nucs and placed queens still in their hair roller cage into each nuc. I placed the nucs in a closet overnight with entrances closed. Today I placed each nuc outside let the queens out of the hair roller cages and opened the entrances to the nucs. Both queens were larger than any other virgin queens I have seen in the past with long abdomens almost as if they already had mated. One of the queens was piping away. The other queen had wings that did not look quite right it appeared they could be deformed or damaged. Later today this queen along with the workers had absconded from the mating nuc. There were less workers in this nuc than the other but still probably enough to take care of the queen. I looked around and could not find the queen so maybe she could fly even through the wings did not look right. I guess it would have been better if the queens had emerged out of their cells in the mating nucs instead of in the cell builder. Maybe that would have prevented the one queenand bees from absconding.

**Velbert** · 07-17-2007, 09:52 PM

Hey CW if you just put the bees and queen on foundation or built combs and no brood YOU need to keep the closed up and well ventilated and feed in the nuc and in a cool place for 3 days after the queen cell had hatched because at the end of the 3 rd day the queens pheromones kick in and this will 95% of the time keep them at home

**peggjam** · 07-18-2007, 07:16 AM

Yes as Velbert said, and as we have discussed before, you need to set mini's up with bees, queencell, and feed, and LOCK them in for 3 days to get them to settle in, then the only problem you might have is robbing

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**CWBees** · 07-18-2007, 12:02 PM

Thanks for the info. I need to follow the proven methods instead of cutting corners. Where do you think the bees and queen that left went?

I would have thought the bees might go back to their original hives and leave the queen behind.

**Chef Isaac** · 07-18-2007, 01:23 PM

CW:

I would have to say that I am in the same boat as you.... should not cut corners. My problem is the time it takes to rear queens meaning trying to keep to the schedule. Also.... it is tough sometimes to get all the resources too. Yikes!!!!

**Wojtek** · 07-18-2007, 07:01 PM

Thank you Velbert. This is very useful information for me too.

**Wojtek** · 07-18-2007, 07:30 PM

Peggjam. "...we have discussed before..." Where to find this for more details? please.

So, from this information I assume that if there is some brood there it is not necessary to lock them for 3 days, after virgin have hatched free or in a cage.
I am mentioning "...in a cage" because hatching in a cage will let me see her easy instead of looking for her on all combs if she is alive and well.

**peggjam** · 07-18-2007, 08:28 PM

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211049

This one talks about different ways to set up mini nucs

. The rest are spread out in previous threads over the first 5 or so pages here.

**livetrappingbymatt** · 07-18-2007, 08:39 PM

peggjam,but one of the queens in a mini,too hold over . she and the girls left town!
surprised the daylights out of me!
bob

**peggjam** · 07-18-2007, 09:06 PM

Ooopppps......that's not good. Maybe I need to learn to clip wings

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**Wojtek** · 07-19-2007, 12:57 PM

Thank you Peggjam, it helped, partly.
I have another question. Is successful banking of virgins possible? If yes, in queenless or queenright hive, and for how long?

**Joseph Clemens** · 07-19-2007, 01:01 PM

I've raised ten queens this season that I placed in Mini Mating Nucs for mating. All were hatched out in the Mini Nucs. All seemed quite comfortable and well settled in, about 1/2 were given young brood, including eggs, to help keep them in residence. Every single one of them departed taking nearly their entire population of workers with them on their mating flights, even abandoning their brood and comb building in progress. None of them stayed nearby, nor did any join nearby queenless colonies. We have been in a heat-wave and drought, exceptional even for us here in the usually hot and arid Southwest USA. No appreciable precipitation since about this time last year (we usually get some rain in mid-Summer and through the Winter). There is presently no pollen being brought in - this is the first time I've ever seen such a long period of no pollen, usually there is always some pollen being brought in, even if very little. Perhaps these factors have influenced my failure to obtain mated queens in Mini Mating Nucs. I will likely try them again in a year with better conditions. But presently have been having somewhat better success with 2, 3, and 5 frame full-size medium frame nucs, used for mating.

**peggjam** · 07-19-2007, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wojtek

Thank you Peggjam, it helped, partly.
I have another question. Is successful banking of virgins possible? If yes, in queenless or queenright hive, and for how long?

I've never tried to bank virgins. But it is possible, under the right conditions, and only for one week or less, preferably during the time she hatches until she is 1 week old. Once you go past that period, then you are gambling with whether she will successfully get mated. It would be best inside a queenless colony, but I have heard of systems where there is a queen being mated, while a virgin is inside a cage, and once the queen is picked or moved to another hive, the virgin is released. But I have not done this, so........maybe it will work, maybe not

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**peggjam** · 07-19-2007, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Joseph Clemens

I've raised ten queens this season that I placed in Mini Mating Nucs for mating. All were hatched out in the Mini Nucs. All seemed quite comfortable and well settled in, about 1/2 were given young brood, including eggs, to help keep them in residence. Every single one of them departed taking nearly their entire population of workers with them on their mating flights, even abandoning their brood and comb building in progress. None of them stayed nearby, nor did any join nearby queenless colonies. We have been in a heat-wave and drought, exceptional even for us here in the usually hot and arid Southwest USA. No appreciable precipitation since about this time last year (we usually get some rain in mid-Summer and through the Winter). There is presently no pollen being brought in - this is the first time I've ever seen such a long period of no pollen, usually there is always some pollen being brought in, even if very little. Perhaps these factors have influenced my failure to obtain mated queens in Mini Mating Nucs. I will likely try them again in a year with better conditions. But presently have been having somewhat better success with 2, 3, and 5 frame full-size medium frame nucs, used for mating.

They might have left town because the virgin hadn't had enough time to generate her phoromones yet. I had one out of 28 do that, the rest seem to be doing ok the last time I looked. Maybe you will need to feed them and give them some pollen to make up for the lack of natural supplies

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**Joseph Clemens** · 07-19-2007, 01:37 PM

All the virgins were in there for 7-10 days before leaving on, what I assume to be, their first mating flights. They were all given 2 of their 5 comb compliment, solid with about 1/3 pollen -- 2/3 sealed honey. Of course there is nothing like fresh nectar and freshly collected pollen. Every evening the storm clouds roll over us, threatening some Summer rain, but still nothing. It takes only a week or two, once the rains start, to have lots of Summer flowers.

**peggjam** · 07-19-2007, 01:42 PM

Hmmm, guess I don't know what to tell you. Sounds like you did everything right, and they just decieded to leave.......happens sometimes no matter what you do

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**Joseph Clemens** · 07-19-2007, 02:03 PM

After reflecting on this a bit more, I think I might have a possible answer:
1) The bees I have been populating my Mini Mating Nucs with have been my standard local strain, while giving them Italian Cordovan queen cells.
2) Perhaps I should populate the Mini Mating Nucs with Italian Cordovan workers to reduce their tendency to leave with the virgins on their mating flights.

**Wojtek** · 07-19-2007, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by peggjam

I've never tried to bank virgins. But it is possible, under the right conditions, and ......

(partial)

Thank you Peggjam

**livetrappingbymatt** · 07-19-2007, 08:47 PM

not your fault,these bees didn't like the mini nuc.when i installed the bees they hung out for two days.finally going to work on the comb i had rubber banded in the frames.they took the syrup i provided but never foraged much.these were "house" bees from a cut out.
nuc was made from foam container medical supplies come in,frame were home made with cut out combs,nothing ventured not much lose.
bob

**peggjam** · 07-19-2007, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by livetrappingbymatt

not your fault,these bees didn't like the mini nuc.when i installed the bees they hung out for two days.finally going to work on the comb i had rubber banded in the frames.they took the syrup i provided but never foraged much.these were "house" bees from a cut out.
nuc was made from foam container medical supplies come in,frame were home made with cut out combs,nothing ventured not much lose.
bob

I see, they wanted to move out of the slums

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