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  1. #21

    Default

    The fact that there is a "paper" and hints of a "virus" but that one can't know about it now sounds like baloney. Kind of a nice hook though.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    Last count someone qouted to me, there were about 18 viruses known or isolated to bees. Kashmir, blackened queen desease, and so on. With limited research in the past due to a small industry, and perhaps lack of funds, it is easily conceivable that there are more to be found.

    With our bees coning into contact with new pests such as SHB, invasive pests from around the world such as roached, and in contact with agriculture practices and industries, I would bet that we don't know about every virus that could, would, and no doubt will, effect bees.

    Many times, while searching for something cuasing one problem, something else is discovered.

    Two basic questions need to be answered beyond the announcement of a new virus. One, is the virus outbreak or lethal condition due to another condition required to set it in motion. Two, is it the sole factor in CCD. (among many other possible questions that need to be answered.)

    Humans carry many viral and bacterial matter. We have immune systems that are constantly coming into contact with them. Its when we have been exposed to a "new" medium, or our immune system has been comprimised, is when problems arise. So the question is...Is it a new virus? Or is something like pesticides, nutrition, or a comprimised immune system allowing it to be a more deadly factor then normal?

    The fact with the amount of research being committed, I would of thought something "new" would be found. Now, can it be tied directly to CCD?
    Last edited by BjornBee; 07-16-2007 at 04:25 AM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    an unmedicated beesource member writes:
    Very humorous Mapman. Why not ask me if I want my kids blown away by a gun, then using that as justification to ban all weapons. Typical ploy and rationalization.

    tecumseh thinking out loud adds:
    well I see that once again when a hard question is asked that distraction is what you get.

    and yes mapman I think you have nailed the malady directly... lumpers.. got to remember 'that'....

    for myself if some good public servant is willing to come out with me in July and hoist supers in the hot texas sun I for one would certain appreciate the help.... and would likely acquire a good belly laugh when they tried to light the smoker and put on their viel...

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
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    6,973

    Default

    soocom1 adds:
    For those who laughed..
    Go ahead, and laugh.
    If you don't believe this, look at the beef industry. For over 200 years, they have had to be branded. Now, cattle must by law be located 100% of the time with GPS co-ordinates. These co-ordinances MUST be relayed to the USDA with in 48 hours and is part of what is known as NAIS. The National Animal Identification System. For those not familiar:

    tecumseh replies:
    well for one thing soocom branding aninmals is controlled by the state and there are states where cattle (and I assume other livestock like horses) are not branded. most (all that I am familar with) pure bred breed associations do require animal to be tattooed. the state I reside allready requires me to brand (unregistered brand) my equipment for identification purposes.

    secondly when I ping your fist sight after reading the first paragraph I wonder what about 'voluntary' you don't understand?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Warne, North Carolina
    Posts
    551

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soocom1 View Post
    If you don't believe this, look at the beef industry. For over 200 years, they have had to be branded. Now, cattle must by law be located 100% of the time with GPS co-ordinates. These co-ordinances MUST be relayed to the USDA with in 48 hours and is part of what is known as NAIS.
    Hmm?? Does this mean we're gonna have to put a GPS on each individual bee?? This will be fun,
    ~What do you know there's so much to be done
    Count all the bees in the hive, Chase all the clouds from the sky~

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,552

    Default

    Our insurance requires we supply them with legal land locations of every apiary, I have no problem with this. The state of California requires we supply them with locations of our bees when they are moved in there, I have no problem with this (especially since our broker takes care of it ).
    Our bees are inspected by the Wisconsin state bee inspector before shipping, I have no problem with this.
    I suppose some would consider the above examples as one more slippery slope but I can see reason in them all.

    We have considered GPS tracking (on the pallet, cyndi, hopefully not each bee ) as a theft deterrent/solution but would hate to see something like this required where economically or logistically it makes no sense.

    The Honey Board already takes $.01 a pound, they could easily raise this fee or another mechanism to collect additional fees could be installed, through the bee inspection service or another agency. I would definitely not be in favor of additional mandated funding or horrendous record keeping requirements being imposed upon us, we have enough work already!
    Sheri

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,074

    Thumbs down Then There's This:

    http://www.slate.com/id/2170305/?GT1=10238


    This type of sentiment could be bad.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Default

    Oh PLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEEEE! Pegjam,

    This article must not have any facts. I was just told that masons, and my comments recently of growers seeking other alternatives to honeybees was just nonsense. For the almond industry to attempt using masons...is completely nuts! What do they know about bees or pollination anyways....

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,074

    Default

    My point exactly......but....if these uninformed idiots can get stuff like this published, where does our postion go then?
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee WI
    Posts
    264

    Wink

    My dimes worth, it used to be worth a penny for our thoughts but the cost just keep go up.

    Well we all have problems with our hive in some way or the other this is not to say that one needs to have government regulations. What we need is as bee keepers is to regulate ourselves There are enough of you out there who are extremely knowledgeable on the subject of bee keeping and there needs to be a national effort to do so. There are thousands of bee clubs and state organizations. I feel that it is too early to speculate what is going on with the CCD problems. Does anyone really know? It just happened last year; we all know that there is big money when it comes to pollination of crops.
    I would agree with some that we need to have some regulations on bee keeping. My feeling is that the government will say that the problem lies with the hobbyist and that you will have to buy a permit and you all know that it will cost big bucks. Once the government gets involved there is no ending to adding cost to the industry.

    In this present environment of government the people of this country have lost what this country was founded on and that is a two party system. We have a congress that acts like one governing body The Republications act like Democrats. The national stations are doing the bidding of the liberals which is not new but in the six years this has been very one sided which makes the libs, happy. It’s almost like we have one ruling body in our government So much for the political stuff. My feeling is that CCD is the direct result of Bush being incharge of the country. He's blamed for all things.
    Wishing you all the best of tomorrows and good honey

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
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    >>>My feeling is that CCD is the direct result of Bush being incharge of the country.<<<
    My suspicion all along!
    Sheri

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,160

    Default

    paulnewbee wrote,
    >Well we all have problems with our hive in some way or the other this is not to say that one needs to have government regulations.

    Well, WELL said,

    > My feeling is that the government will say that the problem lies with the hobbyist and that you will have to buy a permit and you all know that it will cost big bucks.

    Very well said,

    >Once the government gets involved there is no ending to adding cost to the industry.

    Hello out there, are you guys reading this,

    >In this present environment of government the people of this country have lost what this country was founded on

    Ya, we the people for the people by the people


    >My feeling is that CCD is the direct result of Bush being incharge of the country. He's blamed for all things

    ****, well said again.


    Bush is a do-er.

    When Bush try to give the S.S. system back into the hands of the people (tax payer), the libbs said, oh that would be dangerous, just look at the stock market??? well lets just do that, almost at a 14,000 high on the dow as of today.

    The libbs run on the fear that somehow the Goverment knows best.

    S.S. health care etc... have you ever heard their story change??? NO

    Every four years you hear the same from them(libbs), But Bush has tried to put the power back in the tax payers hands.


    Paulnewbee GREAT POST

    Keith

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    751

    Default

    This is going to lead to a flame war with someone if it goes on! Whatever problems you may have in your political system, try to keep party politics out of it, and stick to bees.
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
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    6,973

    Default

    from across the pond... howdy robert.

    robert adds:
    This is going to lead to a flame war with someone if it goes on! Whatever problems you may have in your political system, try to keep party politics out of it, and stick to bees.

    tecumseh suggest:
    well the larger problem robert (and I would suspect it is not unique to the US of A) is: that there a small number of very vocal citizens here who have acquired their political belief from a heroin addict (plea bargined but quite evidently quilty), the mentally challanged (verified) and various religious charlatans. Like most true believers they require no evidence or proof or any connection with reality. Most of the same crowd still believes that justice would better be served by a quick shoot out on main street at high noon. They still cling to the belief that good will ALWAYS prevail.... To simply tag this crowd as NAIVE is at best an understatement.

    you robert seem to have overlooked the fact that our political/economic system has lead us to any number of problems with involves the bees... So how can we possible seperate the bees from our political/economic reality (this is a hypothetical question which I really do not expect you to address)?

    and have a most excellent day...

  15. #35
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    dekalb,alabama,USA
    Posts
    80

    Default ccd

    dont care about the guvmnt in any way they usually cant solve many problems, the best solution is mixed ferals as far as i know they do not have many problems with ccd or anything else, we made up 4 fr splits and shipped to california in feb. and the spring before the last we sent all of our capped brood and most of the adult bees to the same area, the colonies left behind which at this point were on 2-3 fr had built back to full colonies in 1-3 chambers with feeding by the first of april. in the areas we have bees the farmers are constantly treating their crops, cotton, soybeans, corn and others and we see no signs of ccd or anything similiar. even treating our bees in such a manner our losses were extremely small and probably due to weather more than anything else, maybee 1-3 colonies in a hundred.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
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    751

    Default

    I've picked this up a bit late, but I'm all too well aware of the existence of very severe political problems on both sides of the Atlantic, and believe me, I'm not against you. My worry is that once party politics, which always exploits all sorts of prejudices, comes in, rationality can go out of the window very fast, and you just get endless flaming. I've seen it on other lists. Another problem I've seen is that the political views held by one nation can sometimes be grossly insulting or offensive to another, and those propounding them can be totally unaware of it. So perhaps it's best left off-list!

    A few years ago, there was some seriously unpleasant (to my mind) ranting on one poorly moderated, US-based international list, to the effect that 'We've got a moral case to do anything we like to anyone we like, we're the best, we're going to duff up the world, and nobody outside the US (this was explicitly stated by one poster) has any right to criticise us'. You can imagine how that felt to anyone outside the US, and some inside it. OK, that sort of stuff's gone quiet now, but the pendulum never stops swinging. Once you allow a rant from one perspective to pass unquestioned, you have to allow them all to avoid bias, and the end result can be total mayhem. As I say, I've seen it.
    Last edited by Robert Brenchley; 08-21-2007 at 04:59 AM.
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    dekalb,alabama,USA
    Posts
    80

    Default politics

    I agree with you lets not see pure politics here and solve bee problems only, my statement referred more along the lines of money in versus gains achieved, the government will do or not according to the season and we will have to solve the most of these problems ourselves and should be thankful for any help we do recieve, and this was not a reflection on the researchers because the last several years they have been hampered just as have the beekeepers, projects initially funded then not, ended before real gains could be achieved, or talked about then not started at all.

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