wheat flour as pollen ?

[Michael Bush]

>Theres no need to say its been discussed before, we are discussing it again.

I agree. There is no point acting like it's a mistake to have a discussion.

[FordGuy]

[Is pollen patty substitute as good as real pollen?]

Do you think you understand the diet of bees better than their own primative hunger?

I think bees know to gather the pollens that are rich in the nutrients that stores and diet lack.

-Jeff

they also gather sawdust and dirt, and bring Seven dust back to the hive. So they don't always know to gather those things rich in nutrients.

[Church]

Here is some interesting reading on some studies done with a pollen substitute from experts in bee nutritition

I think the article is a good read not only about pollen but possible CCD causes.

http://westernfarmpress.com/news/062107-bee-collapse/

Here are some snippets:


Honeybees were lacking a good mix of pollens, according to Mussen, who is based at UC-Davis.

“It may be a malnutrition stress situation. Pollen is where honeybees get important proteins, fats, minerals, and vitamins.”

&

Lead researcher Gloria DeGrandi-Hoffman has spent 29 years in honeybee research, including 22 years at the Hayden bee facility.

“The laboratory’s mission is to provide strong colonies for the pollination of agricultural crops,” she says, “We look at bee nutrition as a large part of maintaining strong colonies.”

Are honeybees getting required nutrition through natural pollen?

“As much as U.S. agriculture needs honeybees, it’s very challenging to find areas where you can sufficiently feed bees on natural pollen, particularly during times of the year when you can have 8,000 to 10,000 colonies in a single area waiting to be moved into a crop like almonds.”

&

DeGrandi-Hoffman and other researchers at the Arizona facility have worked tirelessly with Western farmers and beekeepers, who asked for the lab’s assistance in developing a nutritionally sound, enhanced bee supplement to foster healthier bees to meet Western agricultural demands.

After four years of research, a new bee supplement called MegaBee is ready for production, with plans for market availability by August 2007. Available as a liquid and in a patty form, the new supplement is likely to be manufactured at Yuma, Ariz.

&

“We’ve worked with Gordon Wardell, who offers expertise in honeybee nutrition and microbiology. We have expertise in honeybee crop pollination and chemistry, so we partnered to create this diet.”

Wardell, the creative partner, purchased MegaBee licensing rights from the government, DeGrandi-Hoffman says. She and the Almond Board of California and Grandi-Hoffman contacted Wardell to create the bee supplement.

In his research, Wardell says, “I asked the bees” what they wanted to eat.

“I put dishes of food on a table. The bees came nosing into it – it was a smorgasbord. At the end of the day, we’d weigh the dishes to see what the bees liked and didn’t like. Then we looked at the nutritional makeup and started combining and mixing until we had a formula for which bees had a high preference.”

MegaBee, also called the Tucson Bee Diet, will first be distributed to major honeybee supply houses in 50-pound bags. Beekeepers then add their own sugar syrup to the mix. Pound for pound, the supplement is more digestible than natural pollen, Wardell says.“

In Bakersfield we found, for a pound of product going in, that we had more square inches of brood coming out— even more so than with natural pollen.

[BjornBee]

I hope we get nutritional values, study results, and ingredients. Up till this point, we have all the marketing fluff, personal opinion, and hype for this so called "better" feed. Yeah, I heard the same CRAP when "FEED-BEE" came onto the market.

The bases for thier efforts is due to CRAP being marketed to us in the past. They see a need for vast improvements. Up till now, the beekeeping community has been ignorant in nutritional needs for bees, and has gone on blind faith that the stuff being marketed to us in the past was of a superior quality. Truth shows nothing close to that. If they see a need for something better, fine. But don't go down the same road and expect me to buy the hype and fluff. SHOW ME THE DATA. SHOW ME THE TESTING! SHOW ME THE UNBIASED RESULTS!

Can I get any more clear!

[Church]

Um, no need to kill the messenger LOL

I agree with you about the ignorance of many in the nutritional needs, and have suggested many times that the current protein sources are indeed, CRAP. ie soy flour. Apparently the experts cited in the article agree with me.

Since the research was done by a USDA lab and one of the best in the nation on bee research, by PhD and Entomologists, Id suggest you contact them directly before calling it CRAP. Dr. Wardell has dedicated a good amount of time and study, and his work has perview by noted scientists in bee nutrition.

After all, isnt all about learning more and improving?

I too would like to see the data, as much as you and would gladly call it CRAP if it is not significant or flawed. Until then, have hope that some people may be working towards a common good.

[NW IN Beekeeper]

[Up till this point, we have all the marketing fluff, personal opinion, and hype for this so called "better" feed. ]

No doubt.

[They see a need for vast improvements.]

And so have we.

[Up till now, the beekeeping community has been ignorant in nutritional needs for bees, and has gone on blind faith that the stuff being marketed to us in the past was of a superior quality.]

And that is what I was posting about.

[Truth shows nothing close to that.]

Truth being our using it and seeing a lack of results.

[SHOW ME THE DATA. SHOW ME THE TESTING! SHOW ME THE UNBIASED RESULTS!]

Yeah its nice to hear that a lab is going to research the topic, but if the results aren't going to be shared at a level of understanding that is practical to beekeepers, it will be for not.
I hope for the bee's sake that they share the information.

-Jeff