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Thread: Oxilic Acid

  1. #1
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    Default Oxilic Acid

    I was wondering if anyone is using oxilic acid.

    What have been your experiances?

    How much does it cost?

    How do you use it?

    Any side effcects?

  2. #2
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    I would like to do the trickling technique with OA and sugar water.

  3. #3
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    do you have to wear masks and goggles?

  4. #4
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    Chef:

    I've used oxalic acid. One year I sublimated it with the Heilyser device. Not overly impressed with the device. It could be OK for a smaller amount of hives. The kill rate is variable. I'm pretty sure that the temperature at which that device burns the oxalic acid is too high, and there is no way to regulate it. On a brighter is apparently Cowan manufacturing just finished building a model based on the design of Medhat Nasr (alberta provincial apiculturist). This will be a good rig to have, probably too rich for the hobbyist but such a machine could be sharewd by a club.

    Last year I drizzled liquid on the bees. That worked pretty well. I went faster than I thought. This would work great on singles, no need to split the 2 boxes.

    The biggest drawback is that in order to be most effective oxalic acid has to be applied during a broodless period. I your area which is very similar to mine that may not happen all year. If you run Italian bees which tend to be very broody this will probably not happen. If you have more conservative bees like caniolans or russians, then a late november or early decmber application would work very well. You would need something like Mite-Away's in early september late august to protect your wi nter bees from varroa damage. It would also protect you from tracheal mites.

    The trouble with these "softer chemicals" is that they are temperature sensitive. I used formic last fall and this spring and I am having troubles with some varroa because of temperature issues. Last fall went from honey flow to cool and rainy overnight so the Mite-Away's didn't work as best as I would have liked. When they were removed from the hives there still was some formic in them, I could smell it and the pads still had some weight on them.Then bees are returned home where they start brooding up again and maintained brood all winter, so much for the liquid oxalic plan. Again it worked but not great. No broodless period. Some hives were, but definitely not the Cardovans. This spring has been very cool and the liquid formic acid has not worked very well. In Canada liquid formic acid can be purchased. I apply it on a meat soaker pad. That's what I've used this spring. We are seeing very little varroa damage, but the alcohol washes are telling me to treat otherwise the colonies will be in trouble come september.

    jean-Marc

  5. #5
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    Jean Marc:

    I currently do nothing for varroa. I am still unsure of what I want to do as far as treatment goes. IPM seems to me, at least right now, is really time consuming. I could see doing more sugar dustings, grease patties, and using essential oils. I have thought about using thymol gell.

    I do not want to use formic acid as a personal choice.

    I still have this "whatever survives" type of attitude.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Isaac View Post
    I do not want to use formic acid as a personal choice.
    Just wondering, why would you want to try oxalic acid but formic is out?

  7. #7
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    personal choice.....

  8. #8
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    Chef:

    When trickling there is no need for a mask or goggles. Gloves are not a bad idea when mixing it in the syrup. Probably not the end of the world if you get some on your hands A mask, maybe. Mix it outdoors. I definitely wore a mask, gloves and tyvek coveralls when fumigating it.

    Unless you have varroa tolerant stock then you'll need to treat, otherwise you will you feel when you find them dead?

    Jean-Marc

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Isaac View Post
    personal choice.....
    Is it a secret? You have something against things with one carbon, but two carbons is all better?

    Just curious what the reasons where - if its that private you don't have to say.

  10. #10

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    I drizzle. It is dirt cheap.

  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nursebee View Post
    I drizzle. It is dirt cheap.
    I use nothing at all. It costs nothing, doesn't even take any of my time, and I can feel confident that I haven't added those contaminants to my honey or beehives.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 05-27-2007 at 04:38 PM.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  12. #12
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    >>I've used oxalic acid. One year I sublimated it with the Heilyser device. Not overly impressed with the device.

    I used their vaporizer, too. Not at all impressed. I believe I gave it a fair test, over 3 years.

    First year, I used ApiLife, followed by OAv in November. Following summer I had very high mite loads by June.

    Second year, I treated in August with Fluvalinate, followed by OAv in November. Again, seeing varroa in drone brood in June. By August was seeing pms.

    Third year, treated with OAv three times in September. Washed bees and counted mites before treatments. Treated three times, one week apart...as per Heilyser's recomendations. Re-washed with alcohol, and counted mites. No change in numbers. Treated again with OAv in mid-November. Lost 25% to Varroa in winter. Lots of mites in drone brood now.

    I've read the reports. Experiments showing OAv will kill 90%+ in broodless colonies. Maybe so. Maybe I'm not waiting long enough to reach broodlessness. Can't really wait any longer. Have to get the job done before snow gets too deep.

    Thought of using OA trickle. Would have to leave hives unwrapped, until broodlessness, and then treat, and then wrap. With a good snowstorm, I wouldn't be able to get to many yards to treat or wrap.

  13. #13
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    Default

    [QUOTE=Michael Palmer;238392
    I used their vaporizer, too. Not at all impressed. I believe I gave it a fair test, over 3 years.[/QUOTE]

    What are you using currently that seems to work better than the OA Vapor, or are you just now approaching year 4 ?

    I've tried OA Vapor for a couple of years, and as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out after analyzing last winters losses.
    To everything there is a season....

  14. #14
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    >What are you using currently that seems to work better than the OA Vapor

    Formic

  15. #15
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    Finman had some nice posts with links to European literature on OA trickle. Appearently trickling is old hat in Western Europe. Unfortunately it is not yet approved for use in the USA.

  16. #16
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    >I use nothing at all. It costs nothing, doesn't even take any of my time, and I can feel confident that I haven't added those contaminants to my honey or beehives

    I am in the same boat as Joseph, have been now for three years. I have about 15 to 20% losses last three winters. Trying to kill all varroa in a hive is not realistic to me. Getting it to a manageable level for the bees to live with is, and where I think I am. Genetics and brood cell size is the key, and getting that nasty wax out of the hive helps too.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

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