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Thread: Ccd

  1. #21
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    Dec 2005
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    Volga, SD
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    Default

    I'm with you on this one, Jim. Some of these accusations seem wildly illogical to me.

    Of course, if I were among the scientists actively researching CCD, I would check the possibilities of even some of these wildly-illogical explanations. Like you've pointed out, detecting chemical residues in hives is fairly simple with modern methods, and the researchers seem to have checked for various pesticides or other contaminants. I give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume that if such things enter my mind, the same ideas are likely to occur to the researchers, and they're likely to have already checked for them.

    In my opinion, continuing to insist that pesticides may be responsible for CCD is an insult to the teams researching CCD. Neonicotinoids have come up in many circles; if the researchers have checked for neonicotinoids and found nothing, it's insulting to keep harping about neonicotinoids. If the researchers haven't checked for neonicotinoid contamination, they deserve the insult. I have to believe that they're aware of it, though, and have already examined the possibility.

  2. #22
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    Nov 2004
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    bound brook nj usa
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    16

    Default Strange oservation may be the key

    I understand that when a colony dies due to CCD it is about three days before hive robbing begins. This suggests to me the presence of a toxin that can be aired out of the hive once the bees are gone. This must mean that the bees presence somehow causes the toxin to remain at toxic levels. This could be body heat drawing the toxins out of something such as the wax.
    For lack of any better advice I will make certain there is good ventalation and will use starter strips for as much first use wax as possible.

  3. #23
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    Feb 2003
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    Columbia, South Carolina USA
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    2,600

    Default

    Last edited by Keith Benson; 04-24-2007 at 08:07 PM.
    Bee Sting Honey - So Good, It Hurts!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Lancaster , S.C.
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    Default

    Has anyone considered the possibility that the " Rapture" has begun and we have been left behind? Just a thought.

  5. #25
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    Jun 2005
    Location
    White County, Arkansas
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    Default

    Well I noticed the report read that cell phones close to the hives...I know that when there is an incoming call the electro-magnetic field generated is enough to disrupt my monitor and television, but only if it is within six inches of each. Since I never carry the phone to the hives I don't know. It may be interesting to find out if and incoming call would disrupt the enroute foragers and orientation flyers or even the hive itself.

    I am curios what periodically causes this...is it chemical build up, I haven't seen anything yet if it affects untreated hives, too much stress, why affecting this yard but not that.

    A fellow older beek had a colony that met the CCD earmarks, after the fact, and had no activity for almost three weeks. Found what looked like a swarm had taken up residence. No wax moth or SHB or robbing signs also no cockroaches, ants or flys in the hive.

    Don't know if this means anything...just my opinion.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
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    751

    Default

    I've got my own theories about the guy in London; a lot of people around here have had problems recently because of the arrival of resistant mites; it could very easily have been the same there. Le's not assume that just because one problem is getting all the publicity right now, it's always the one thing.
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South Gloucestershire, England
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    35

    Default Economist write-up link

    <http://www.economist.com/science/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=9070846>

    Hi guys Stuck to the Floor here in SW England,

    Above link is to what looks like info on what ever it was Jim(?) I think was invited to sit in on the 23-24.

    Will likely cross post to other threads on CCD, appologies now.

    Past Wk end a BIBBA AGM lecturer Dr Steve Martin convinced me that IT is going to be any and all of the 14 viruses known to be carried by Bees. Only 2 of which have been studied! Varroa is the vector.

    We have blown up their immune system, with human explotation.

    IMO You can not fool Mother Nature.
    Same for humans and chemicals, just look around you. No PR for human problems there is no cash in... now is there............

    HoneyBEEGood
    Badminton
    S Glos BBKA

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    South Gloucestershire, England
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    35

    Default Good (?) link Economist Write up

    http://www.economist.com/science/Pri...ory_id=9070846


    Sorry the brackets were stuck on, :^)
    hope this one links

    Stuck to the Floor

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Mason, MI, USA
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    1,015

    Default

    I just received this link on CCD
    http://www.latimes.com/news/la-sci-b...,7437491.story
    Clint
    Clinton Bemrose<br />just South of Lansing Michigan<br />Beekeeping since 1964

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
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    1,191

    Default

    It is hitting the news regularly now. We have a doomsday news/media group with a bit of the chicken little syndrome. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070502/...neybee_die_off

    There is definitely a problem. The question is, just how big is the problem?

    Darrel Jones
    DarJones - 44 years, 10 colonies (max 40), sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 11 frame broodnest, small cell

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Central Square, NY, Oswego County
    Posts
    814

    Sad

    Whatever the problem is I hope they find it soon. I seem to be having similar problems for the past 5 years. Build up to 30 hives by fall. Take care of them ,feed them and make sure everything is ok. Come spring back down to 4-8 hives just to build them up again. I have been trying to avoid chemicals and just use screen bottom boards with use of Terramycin patties. The hives that die out are full of brood and food. Just a few bees left with possibly the queen. I have wondered if there might be to much inbreeding with the bees and it has finally come to a head. I have kept bees for over 30 years and this is just something that has baffled me to no end. I do not have a cell phone so my bees 'should' not be affected but who knows. Just hope they find out soon what is doing all this to the little ladies. I have kept SMR, Russian, New World and there seems to be no pattern as to which ones live or die. Very frustrating if your trying to breed a bee for your area.
    Dan

  12. #32
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    Dec 2005
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    Volga, SD
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    Splitting four to eight hives each year to get 30 hives by fall? Have you tried less-aggressive splitting? Maybe, starting with eight hives and having 16 by fall?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Central Square, NY, Oswego County
    Posts
    814

    Question

    I have tried less aggressively but the outcome is the same. I do not harvest the honey but do feed the bees heavily to build them up. They go into winter with 150 lbs or so of honey/sugar syrup. These splits are done early in the year. I keep a close eye on them. Freeze my drone comb for mite control. What I find interesting is that some of hives that survive are the ones that were chopped up into small nucs and allowed to build up over the summer. I'm really at a loss as to why I'm having problems. 'Back in the old days', 30 years ago, I did that and they all survived. I think we beekeepers and bees are overwhelmed with all the stresses out there in the environment.
    Dan

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
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    3,401

    Default

    Nosema Ceranae can't be the problem.

    You see, the little paramecium are hard to tell apart, and we have
    a fairly firm statement from Eric Mussen (Extension guy in CA) that
    he saw what he classified as Nosema Ceranae in the midguts of bees
    in CA back in the 90s. He shrugged off the find as "impossible to
    confirm", as he lacked the sort of DNA gear needed to confirm or
    refute his visual ID. The two look different, but it takes a very good
    eye and lots of experience to differ between the two.

    Going back through the "library" of samples kept by various sites,
    a preliminary statement was made at the USDA CCD meeting that
    the bulk of nosema that we have had in the USA WAS Nosema
    Ceranae (or a variant thereof) for at least the past few years.

    In "pedigree" form, Nosema Ceranae is said to be able to kill off
    a colony within days. Nosema Apis rarely killed hives, if ever.
    Clearly, there has been some sort of "genetic drift" in regard to
    the USA version of Nosema Ceranae, as we don't have hives dying
    from nosema, and the CCD hives don't show any consistent pattern
    of having any form of nosema.

    Conclusion: Nosema Ceranae is NOT the cause of CCD, nor is the
    USA version as nasty as the Asian version. Another dead end,
    another red herring. "Bad scientist, no pizza." "Bad reporter, no donut!"

    And remember, bees using cellphones would not be the disaster everyone
    expects, as each and every one of their calls would be covered under
    flat-rate "friends and family" plans.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Central Square, NY, Oswego County
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    814

    Question

    Thanks Jim for the update. The e-mails I have been getting from the various labs sum up to the same conclusion. No one at this time knows what is causing this problem. There seem to be numerous avenues and no one can pin point to one malady. They did however noticed thru dissection that some of the bees seem to have lesions in their gut, Almost as if they had some kind of cancer. Is this a cause (???), right now as I said, I'm at a loss as to what is going on. I know I'm pushing my bees by spliting them up the way I do, but I still think that the losses should not be that great. I have asked the lab down in Louisiana if this might be a genetic problem, that is to much inter breeding. Is it a DNA problem also? As of today (5-4-07) I have not been given an answer to that question and really don't expect one. I know they are looking into that from articles I have read. Hopefully they will have an answer soon. Just another question did the mite cause the bees to get a virus that now is causing them to abscond the hives?
    There are many questions and for now very few answers.
    Dan

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    central N.C.
    Posts
    130

    Question N.Ceranae

    I have very limited experiance with bees but the one thing that I have learned in the past year is to never say never. As Diana Cox -Foster of Penn state Quated in the L.A. times last week N. Ceranae is one of many pathogens in bees By itself it is probably not the culprit but it may be one of the key players.Could it not have mixed with anouther of the many viriouses in bees to have formed the killer.As with the flu bug in humans it would have taken a while to mix an mutate.The army lab that did the test that I read about could only identify the known DNA that was in there data base.So if N.Ceranae had changed, the test would have only picked up the parent DNA. So this is my theary I will not stand by any thing that I said as fact .But it does sound good ,Right?

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