Housel positioning

[bspaugh]

I understand the concept, but can't tell the difference on the frames. The only foundation I have is the Mann Lake PF-120. Any hints on just what I am looking for and how to look for it? I don't see anything that looks like the dotted lines. I just see hexagons.

Thank you.

[Michael Bush]

With the PF100 and PF120's all you will see is a flat bottom to the cell. There's no housel positioning since there is no rhombi in the bottom of the cells.

If you have foundation or you had real drawn comb, there would be "Y"s in the bottoms of the cells. These are what people who do housel positioning are looking for.

[DANIEL QUINCE]

Correct me if I’m wrong. I was looking INSIDE of one hexagon cell, AT the bottom of the cell. What you see there THROUGH the bottom are the sides/walls of the hexagon cell on the other side of the frame. The “Y” you see is actually there because of the vertical offset between the cells on one side of the frame and the cells on the other side of the frame. Am I missing something?

[Jim Fischer]

You may want to read this:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...8&postcount=22

But I'm not sure what has happened to Dennis' website, so you'll
have to PM him.

[Ron Young]

"If you have foundation or you had real drawn comb, there would be "Y"s in the bottoms of the cells. These are what people who do housel positioning are looking for." Quote from MB


These are what people who do housel positioning are looking for??? What happens if you do not pay attention to they Y's, and get them all in the box the same way? I just finished the beginners course, and I did not here this term. Is this something that is more advanced, that experienced beek's look for, or what?

[Dan Williamson]

I tried the Housel positioning one season.

I never did it again... I couldn't tell the difference in hives that I had done it to and other hives that I just put the frames in without paying attention.

Waste of time IMHO!

[DANIEL QUINCE]

I already marked my frames so I may as well keep them oriented.

[suprstakr]

I do Housel and don't care if it works for everyone. Since the bees are happy ,I am happy the bees sence my happines and they are calm.I for one don't want to end our hapiness.

[IslandMountainFarm]

You may want to read this:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...8&postcount=22

But I'm not sure what has happened to Dennis' website, so you'll
have to PM him.

Got an email from Dennis today. He changed hosts and this is the new address for the BWrangler, at least for the year.

http://gobee.farvista.net/

[Jim Fischer]

Dennis' experiment with housel can be read about here:

http://gobee.farvista.net/shou.htm

It illustrates the crucial importance of doing even
a simple controlled study with a few colonies before
accepting on faith that some obscure practice will
result in tangible advantage.

Such tests are more important when the claims being
made are extraordinary, and/or the effort required to
follow the practice is non-trivial.

All the things claimed to result from "Housel positioning"
are highly subjective things, so it is also important to
note how crucial metrics are. One cannot control that
which they cannot measure.

I doubt if anyone will take the time and money to do
a formal controlled study, so Dennis' experiment will
likely stand as the authoritative bit of science on the
subject. Others are welcome to do similar studies, as
any proof that a tangible advantage results from such
manipulation of the combs would be a major surprise,
and an advance in our understanding of bees.

It is interesting to note that examinations of colonies
that are not given foundation yields a mixed bag of
Housel positioning factors, and there is no clear trend
that would tend to support the claim that bees prefer
(or even notice) one arrangement of combs versus
another.

[George Fergusson]

I doubt if anyone will take the time and money to do
a formal controlled study, so Dennis' experiment will
likely stand as the authoritative bit of science on the
subject.

His study is good enough for me,

[Albert]

Morning All.

I have found in my limited experience that about 90% of my new comb does follow the Housel Position. There are exceptions, and of the 10% many are realignment issues. In other words they start one way and shift to another. There is a definate boundry where they change from one alignment to another. I don't know why they do it, but there it is.

I did note that there is definately less cross braceing in the field, the combs were more consistant in depth, and generaly neater. They also seem to be more apt to use the plastic foundation I foolishly bought eons ago.

What I am curious about is whether the entry's orientation matters. All of my entries are perpendicular to the frames. I wonder if the entry was on the side and the frames parallel to the frames, if that would change the positioning...

Thanks and Regards,
Albert

[Dan Williamson]

They also seem to be more apt to use the plastic foundation I foolishly bought eons ago.

I used only plastic foundation when I tried Housel two years ago. That is all I've used since 2004 mostly snap-in w/ wood frame but some 1-piece.

Didn't notice any difference whatsoever.

In my view there is much more you can do to benefit your bees and promote strong and healthy colonies than Housel. In my view your time is better spent elsewhere! But if you have nothing better to do then knock yourself out!

[Michael Bush]

>These are what people who do housel positioning are looking for???

Yes.

> What happens if you do not pay attention to they Y's, and get them all in the box the same way?

Probably nothing different.

> I just finished the beginners course, and I did not here this term. Is this something that is more advanced, that experienced beek's look for, or what?

It is a theory and not a well accepted theory. The theory is that the bees orient the combs this way. The only part of the theory I've been able to substantiate is that the FIRST comb is USUALLY oriented vertically (the "Y"s are sideways). If you want to see what that would look like, just turn a sheet of foundation 90 degrees. However, the people following Housel positioning are not doing a "primary comb" and that's the only part of the theory I can substantiate. I can't find a pattern to the rest of the combs, either in the "Y"s or in the vertical/horizontalness of the rows. I have seen when a comb wasn't being drawn correctly that flipping it seemed to help when nothing else would, and that MIGHT be due to Housel positioning or it might be because they simply hadn't started on the other side of the foundation yet so they got a clean slate.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

[hzxlvf]

[SIZE=2]After spending countless hours putting together and painting boxes, assembling frames cutting up foundation, waxing in foundation, and wiring frames, I cant see where the 10 seconds apiece it takes to check and mark the frames "Y" direction could be considered too much work. Once marked keeping them pointed the right way should be way easy and what could it hurt. -< -< -< -< -< >- >- >- >- >-[/SIZE]

[Michael Bush]

>what could it hurt.

Not a thing.

[BjornBee]

Why not cut out that waste of about 8 seconds (of the ten) and not even "check" the frames. Just go right to drawing the little "y" on each frame. Results would be the same.