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  1. #61
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    >>meanwhile Keith is digging the hole of denial a bit deeper and like I suggested quite unaware of the massive subsidy he recieves via the construction trade. he quite obviously feels entitled to this handout of public monies


    Wow, tecumseh, get a handle on things a bit.
    If you would go back to where Keith wrote this, and re read his post, you would probably see what he said, and what your getting at are two completely different issues.

    Probably a good time to get back on topic,.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  2. #62
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    keith sezs:
    If we are mandated by the state (to get tenative mapping) to provide low income housing lots, how do we benefit.

    tecumseh replies:
    well may I assume you are being paid for this work? would the project proceed without some form of federally subsidized interest and rent?

    beyond that any form of road, sewer, water, fire protection etc that a developer does not pay for directly (and I ain't talkin' hook up fees here) are another developers tax payer provided subsidy. do you really believe that this on any other project would proceed without some form of tax payer provided utility or service?

    not that the idea of subside is so off topic since the discussion is really about tax payer funded research for us bee keeper and does the evidence really warrant the proposed tax payer provide research dollars.

    I do suspect that kiech has it quite right in that the majority of folks that get their little tax payer provided (direct or indirect) benefit most typically go down screaming swearing that the dog ate the check and that they don't need no stinkin' hand out (the is so full of self made men, don't you know).

    no real surprise here kiech since it has been my experience that one person entitlement is another person cadillac well fare queen.

  3. #63
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    Tecumseh sezs,
    may I assume you are being paid for this work? would the project proceed without some form of federally subsidized interest and rent?

    Keith replies,
    no rent no interest , we have private funding and sell out right and no renting, kind of hard to rent a bare lot..

    Tecumseh sezs,
    beyond that any form of road, sewer, water, fire protection etc that a developer does not pay for directly (and I ain't talkin' hook up fees here) are another developers tax payer provided subsidy. do you really believe that this on any other project would proceed without some form of tax payer provided utility or service?

    Keith replies,
    We pay for the roads, sewer, water and fire hyderants, for the prodject,all under county code and inspection, when completed we turn it over to the county, free of charge.They are the owners now and have to maintain it.

    Tecumseh, this way off topic for you, I would stick with something you know.

    Keith

  4. #64
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    keith sezs:
    We pay for the roads, sewer, water and fire hyderants, for the prodject,all under county code and inspection, when completed we turn it over to the county, free of charge.They are the owners now and have to maintain it.

    tecumseh replies:
    so the water source just flows out of the desert. and the access roads to the project just magically appear at the properties edge without reason or cause. and the sewage just disappears without trace or smell.

    oh california is such a wonderful land of fantasy and magic.

    all that infrastructure just appear with keith magical waving of the wand...

    get real keith... you are building a development and selling lots to speculative builder and the state requires some compliance with some form of diversity requirement. and now you are whining about being uninformed in regards to this requirement. or perhaps you just don't like the idea of all those browned skinned people devaluing the dollar value of your lots?

    and quite likely all those private funds that you speak of so proudly are in fact some small quantity of private capital and a very large quantity of borrowed money (that is quite likely to have some form of federal or state subsidized interest and or insurance attached). financial ratios (leverage) for this type of endeavor are quite often 10 to one..... so the taxpayer is once again hung out on the limb ten fold the private investor. so who is really taking the real risk here folks?

    in the final analysis the developer acquires a tidy profit (and there ain't nothin' bad about that) and the tax payer gets hung with the infrastructure cost and the long term maintance bill (you have suggest this yourself in your prior comment).

    then keith sezs:
    Tecumseh, this way off topic for you, I would stick with something you know.

    tecumseh replies:
    now that is real funny keith. funny in that if you review this thead there is little beyone conjecture and speculation in regards to this thread stated topic... ccd and the media. and there is little in your comments beyond finger pointing and laying blame on some poor smuch (in psychological speak this would be called blaming the victim) who has quite likely lost his entire livelyhood. I do wonder if keith sentiments will be the same when the shoe is on the other foot?

    once again you seem quite quick to condem and demean some other person little government hand out (with a not even a thinly veiled rascist comment) but are absolutely totally un appreciative and un informed about your own larger government hand out.

  5. #65
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    tecumseh sezs:
    so the water source just flows out of the desert. and the access roads to the project just magically appear at the properties edge without reason or cause. and the sewage just disappears without trace or smell.

    Keith replies: ever heard of a water meter, uitility bill (sewage,street lights ect...). "Access roads" are paid by developers, we are right now in a development where a traffic study was done by the state and said we needed to make a two lane a four lane. The other access roads were paid by previous developers.

    Tecumsehsezs:
    all that infrastructure just appear with keith magical waving of the wand...

    Keith replies : I think it's Keith's magical wave of his check book.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    get real keith... you are building a development and selling lots to speculative builder and the state requires some compliance with some form of diversity requirement. and now you are whining about being uninformed in regards to this requirement.

    Keith replies: once again Tecumseh takes things out of context, I'm not whinning about anything, just stating that we are not subsidized.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    and quite likely all those private funds that you speak of so proudly are in fact some small quantity of private capital and a very large quantity of borrowed money (that is quite likely to have some form of federal or state subsidized interest and or insurance attached). financial ratios (leverage) for this type of endeavor are quite often 10 to one..... so the taxpayer is once again hung out on the limb ten fold the private investor. so who is really taking the real risk here folks?

    Keith replies: wrong again, what's funny here is Tecumseh doesn't even know where the funds come from but he immediately assumes that the goverment was involved. Man, I'm going to have to borrow his crystal ball some day.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    in the final analysis the developer acquires a tidy profit (and there ain't nothin' bad about that) and the tax payer gets hung with the infrastructure cost and the long term maintance bill (you have suggest this yourself in your prior comment).

    Keith replies: Tecumseh, now you're a financial analysis and site development expert. Maintance bill is paid by the monthly water, sewage, electric and street lighting ect.. bill that each home ower gets once a month.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    little government hand out (with a not even a thinly veiled rascist comment) but are absolutely totally un appreciative and un informed about your own larger government hand out

    Keith replies: there are plenty of hand outs for keepers, fsa office has several right now.

    It's getting hard to soar with the eagles when your being followed by a turkey.

    Keith

  6. #66
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    tecumseh sezs:
    so the water source just flows out of the desert. and the access roads to the project just magically appear at the properties edge without reason or cause. and the sewage just disappears without trace or smell.

    Keith replies: ever heard of a water meter, uitility bill (sewage,street lights ect...). "Access roads" are paid by developers, we are right now in a development where a traffic study was done by the state and said we needed to make a two lane a four lane. The other access roads were paid by previous developers.

    Tecumsehsezs:
    all that infrastructure just appear with keith magical waving of the wand...

    Keith replies : I think it's Keith's magical wave of his check book.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    get real keith... you are building a development and selling lots to speculative builder and the state requires some compliance with some form of diversity requirement. and now you are whining about being uninformed in regards to this requirement.

    Keith replies: once again Tecumseh takes things out of context, I'm not whinning about anything, just stating that we are not subsidized.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    and quite likely all those private funds that you speak of so proudly are in fact some small quantity of private capital and a very large quantity of borrowed money (that is quite likely to have some form of federal or state subsidized interest and or insurance attached). financial ratios (leverage) for this type of endeavor are quite often 10 to one..... so the taxpayer is once again hung out on the limb ten fold the private investor. so who is really taking the real risk here folks?

    Keith replies: wrong again, what's funny here is Tecumseh doesn't even know where the funds come from but he immediately assumes that the goverment was involved. Man, I'm going to have to borrow his crystal ball some day.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    in the final analysis the developer acquires a tidy profit (and there ain't nothin' bad about that) and the tax payer gets hung with the infrastructure cost and the long term maintance bill (you have suggest this yourself in your prior comment).

    Keith replies: Tecumseh, now you're a financial analysis and site development expert. Maintance bill is paid by the monthly water, sewage, electric and street lighting ect.. bill that each home ower gets once a month.

    Tecumseh sezs:
    little government hand out (with a not even a thinly veiled rascist comment) but are absolutely totally un appreciative and un informed about your own larger government hand out

    Keith replies: there are plenty of hand outs for keepers, fsa office has several right now.

    It's getting hard to soar with the eagles when your being followed by a turkey.

    Keith

  7. #67
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    This has gone way off topic, and should really be taken offlist. Please let us return to beekeeping!
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  8. #68
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    tecumseh, what has this got to do with the disscussion at hand!
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  9. #69
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    likely very little ian beside the suggestion that one person's essential government program is another person pork barrel and one person's over dramatization is another person reality.

    does anyone really believe that the question (media drama) is so to anyone who has lost 80% of their hives?

    well perhaps trying to educated turkeys (I have two dregrees in finance, have taugh college level finance cources and am a retired home/commercial space builder) is a bit more difficult that repairing someone's plumbing.

    shee....

  10. #70
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    nevermind.
    Last edited by Keith Benson; 04-23-2007 at 06:53 AM.
    Bee Sting Honey - So Good, It Hurts!

  11. #71
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    Blue-grass, you started off this tread,your sign off,
    "Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune"

    Very well said,

    I have almost the same, "there are folks that do it and there are folks that just talk about doing it"

    in other words, there are doers.... and there are talkers.

    Keith

  12. #72
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    It's Jim Rohn
    I love the quote even though it came from someone often considered a scam artist.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  13. #73
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    [QUOTE=bluegrass;231450]It's Jim Rohn
    "Formal education will make you a living; self-education will make you a fortune."QUOTE]


    Sounds sort of like

    "Those that can DO those that can't TEACH"

  14. #74
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    and what does this trite statement repeated and repeated again by people that have neither experience or education have to do with media overplaying a story?

    just being a curious cat.... really...

  15. #75
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    This is a Similar article i think

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070503/...neybee_die_off

  16. #76
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    Jun 2004
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    Central Square, NY, Oswego County
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    Cool

    Regardless if you believe it is a problem or not we all, as beekeepers, need to take notice that something is happening. Yes maybe the media is over reacting but come on there is something happening out there. I increase my hives up to 30 by fall. Do all the right things for winter, and every spring I have just a few that survive usually 4-8 hives. I have tried SMR, Russian, New World, etc. always the same thing. There are hives dead with lots of brood, food, a queen and just a few workers. I honestly am at a loss as to what is happening. I am trying not to use chemicals but .........
    Has anyone else had problems like this? My problem has been going for the past 5 years. I have kept bees for over 30 years so its not like I don't know some 'stuff'. I hope the labs come up with a good explanation.
    Dan

  17. #77
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    Bjerm wrote
    need to take notice that something is happening.

    Bjerm, from july thru Feb, what is your program for healthy hives?

    Bjerm sezs,
    Do all the right things for winter, and every spring I have just a few that survive usually 4-8 hives.

    What are your steps for hive success?


    I have kept bees for over 30 years so its not like I don't know some 'stuff'.

    ???

    I hope the labs come up with a good explanation.
    Dan[/QUOTE]

    ?????

  18. #78
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    Jun 2004
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    Central Square, NY, Oswego County
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    Keith I keep monitoring the mite and do hive inspections on a weekly bases. Freeze my drone combs to keep the mites down. I do not harvest honey but do research on them. I am a associate member of American Association of Professional Apiculturist. I use AI on the queens, have screen bottom boards. The bees go into winter with more that 150 lbs of honey. In the spring I feed them sugar syrup to get the going with Terramycin as a preventative for foul brood. It is just upsetting to find out that all this honey is still in the hive in the spring. Unlike California my winters here are at -10F to -20F below, with up to 6 feet of snow. Maybe you have heard about NY snow fall this past winter in Oswego County and with the record cold?
    Any ways it's just been the past few years that I have been having a heck of a time keeping the hives going. Surprising that when I started out 30 years ago with a swarm, built up to 100+ hives, I did make enough $ to pay for my house and an education for my wife at SU and also pay off my college education.
    Now I have been told that there is a gut parasite that 'might be' the problem, another is a fungus might also be causing a problem. The beekeeping industry is having a bad time keeping ahead of all this, good thing I'm not in beekeeping for a living but more of a hobby.

  19. #79
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    Central Square, NY, Oswego County
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    Keith I keep monitoring the mite and do hive inspections on a weekly bases. Freeze my drone combs to keep the mites down. I do not harvest honey but do research on them. I am a associate member of American Association of Professional Apiculturist. I use AI on the queens, have screen bottom boards. The bees go into winter with more that 150 lbs of honey. In the spring I feed them sugar syrup to get the going with Terramycin as a preventative for foul brood. It is just upsetting to find out that all this honey is still in the hive in the spring. Unlike California my winters here are at -10F to -20F below, with up to 6 feet of snow. Maybe you have heard about NY snow fall this past winter in Oswego County and with the record cold?
    Any ways it's just been the past few years that I have been having a heck of a time keeping the hives going. Surprising that when I started out 30 years ago with a swarm, built up to 100+ hives, I did make enough $ to pay for my house and an education for my wife at SU and also pay off my college education.
    Now I have been told/read that there is a gut parasite that 'might be' the problem, another is a fungus that might also be causing a problem. The beekeeping industry is having a bad time keeping ahead of all this, good thing I'm not in beekeeping for a living but more of a hobby.

  20. #80
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    Bjerm wrote,
    I keep monitoring the mite and do hive inspections on a weekly bases.

    Bjerm, is this a sticky board test? and if so , what method are you using to kill the mites?

    Bjerm sezs,
    It is just upsetting to find out that all this honey is still in the hive in the spring.

    I feel for your fustration.

    Bjerm sezs,
    Maybe you have heard about NY snow fall this past winter in Oswego County and with the record cold?

    I did heard something like 10 feet of snow with no where to go.

    Bjerm sezs,
    Now I have been told/read that there is a gut parasite that 'might be' the problem, another is a fungus that might also be causing a problem.

    Bjerm, have you had a chance to send out sample to the lab for test (Nosema)? I beleive its about 50 bucks or so.

    Keith

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