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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
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    282

    Default

    Just to throw something out there. Could it have to do with Africanized bees clearing out colonies? Have any of these symptoms been reported in south america?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington USA
    Posts
    332

    Default Hi Doc

    I have never heard that African bees would empty a hive, i have heard of usurping, but that usually is an invasion and of abscoding, but typically that is all the bees.

    Chrissy

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    doc25 ask:
    Could it have to do with Africanized bees

    tecumseh replies:
    back during the 60's was the first time I heard of absconding disease (I think the hot spot for the outbreak in those days was louisiana and texas). at the time it did not affect me directly so I paid little attention to the 'outbreak'. it was noted in the late winner and early spring by migratory bee keepers only that time all the bees were gone. a number of folks believe that the disapprearance was in some way related to africanized bees that were (according to rumor) turned loose at baton rouge louisnana.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,196

    Default

    Ian,

    You thought that CCD had unusual symptoms,

    There are some that have some rather odd symptoms, Ian.

    How much is true and how many numbers?

    This I know has been said:
    Quote, Jerry Hayes, Florida apiary inspector, said losses between 650,00-800,000

    Now Ian, if we do a little math here.

    2.5 million "mid summer" U.S.
    -500,00 avg winter losses
    2 million start in spring alive.
    1.2 million in C.A almonds
    800,000 left in the county ?

    With 650-800 thousand losses from CCD would mean there are no bees alive east of Calif ?

    Foregive me Ian, I used some goverment data here, so we have a measure error rate +/- 40%

    Ian, so far I have heard and seen nothing but fluff from this CCD. I'm trying to keep and open mind but it is getting tougher by the day.There could be something there, time and money will track down these (so called)unanswered questions.
    Keith

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,238

    Default

    >>Foregive me Ian, I used some goverment data here, so we have a measure error rate +/- 40%

    Ha ha ha


    >>Ian, so far I have heard and seen nothing but fluff from this CCD

    Keith, you have to realize I have no connection to CCD (so far) other than disscussions between beekeepers, this fourm, and researchers speaking at symposuims. And then the media, but I take the media with a big gain of salt. Everything I am gathering has been presented to me.

    I do however realize you are right in the heart of the losses, from what I can gather, so I am really interested in you input. Especially when your opinion seems to be differing than everthing else I am hearing.

    I would like to get some concrete answers to this problem. If it is beekeeper management, then I think we may have to either take the losses, when they come, or rework our management practices to better fit the requirements we have placed on the bees.

    Keep talking Keith, we need more voices out there!
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,196

    Default

    Ian,

    > I do however realize you are right in the heart of the losses, from what I can gather, .

    Nope, dont know one keepers that has this CCD, but do know keepers with D.O. ( poor to no bee management).

    > Especially when your opinion seems to be differing than everthing else I am hearing.

    Ian, your eyes will never lie to you, but your ears can

    I can't wait to see how many show up at the CCD convention next year.

    Keith

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington USA
    Posts
    332

    Default Ian, i have to plead ignorance on that

    Not only do i plead it, i often demonstrate it I am not only unaware of that series of reports, i have not heard of any other such cases. I am not saying they did not happen, just that i am unaware of them. The only abscoding i have ever seen was an observation hive i opened too much in my bedroom to watch, they decided they would find more darkness in some other location and more room to build a brood nest.

    Chrissy

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,238

    Default

    >>Nope, dont know one keepers that has this CCD, but do know keepers with D.O. ( poor to no bee management).


    So then how can you be so insistent CCD is due to "poor to no bee management"?

    I was thinking you were considering your opinion on beekeeper experience.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South Gloucestershire, England
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Hello from England. American couple here,10 yrs (job related). Hobbist keepers,6yrs 6 hives last wk 5 this week, SW England, Near Badminton.

    Hype made the London Times newpaper today, Page 5 'National' 1/4 page... sm colour pic front page! and National radio news this evening.

    A John Chapple, "head of the London Beekeepers Association and has 20yrs experience w/the insects and their diseases" <snip> "one of London's largest keepers of honeybees, opened his 40 hives after the winter, he was shocked: 23 were empty, seven contained dead bees and only 10 were unaffected by what seemed to be a mystery plague."

    It went on to say that Mr Chapple had been hearing from other bee clubs with 50%-70% losses........yadda yadda yadda

    The latter would not surprise me, as things have been difficult to odd the last few years. More so in my mind because as a former bee inspector friend says a lot of hobbist folks are "keeping bees in firewood" . To my ears and experience it has been more one of Queen problems, as in our 2nd year marked Queens just disappearing. Lots of stuff floating around about new problems that seem to baffle the few old guys still in the hobby.

    Stateside son recently recomended NPR Talk Of the Nation March 9 'Friday Science' prog coverage.
    I do not recomend listening but write to ask;

    Does anyone know about a "Summit" held in Stewart (sp?) FL (aprox late Feb) from what I could make out where CCD seems to have been the topic?

    Interviewed were Damiel Weaver TX Pres Am Beekeeping Fed (If I got that right?) very well spoken and level headed IMO and a Lady Prof from IL, May Burnbaum...??

    Please where else are you guys reading to keep up with this issue hype or otherwise, otherwise preferable?

    I spoke to the two main speaker at The Welsh Bee convention 2wks gone and the more experienced of the two shrilled "American Hype" and threw in a few opinions about Americans I best not relate. BBKA Convention in 2wk hense but agenda set and really doubt even question periods will dare touch it during the bee schools held the day prior and concurrent to the trade show.

    The rest of us when we have spent all the money we can spend, will be telling each other what we have been reading on line and where to look for info.

    I stay over for the Sunday BIBBI (Bee Improvement and Bee Breeder' Association)AGM and will let you know if anything concrete is said. BTY am NOT a breeder but keen on local Native Feral Black Bees.

    Thanking you in advance
    Stuck-To-The-floor

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Grifton, NC
    Posts
    1,302

    Default

    I lost 16 of 22 hives this year and I admit that it was probably sorry beekeeping. But, I can't explain the colonies that fit the CCD profile. If my sorry-ness was across the board, it would be one thing. But when I find hives in the same yard, from the same stock with "normal" die-out symptoms and neighboring hives with "CCD"-like symptoms, I wonder. No doubt, it's easy to blame CCD for sorry beekeeping. I'm thinking this is just cyclical and an accumulation of various problems allcoming together at once, sort of like a stock-market "adjustment". I'm not concerned. I'll continue to work with the survivors and hope Mother Nature can sort it out in th elong run.
    Banjos and bees... how sweet it is!

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HoneyBeeGood View Post
    Hello from England. American couple here,10 yrs (job related).
    So do you get called septic often?
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,196

    Default

    Ian wrote,
    > So then how can you be so insistent CCD is due to "poor to no bee management"?

    Ian, I have looked at hives that the owner (beekeeper) said it was CCD.
    Black old drone comb, the bees that were alive were mited up, and had low stores & Old queens. You can tell how much energy a keepers puts in to his/her bees just by the condition of the hives and equipment .

    Keith

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South Gloucestershire, England
    Posts
    35

    Default

    bluegrass wrote: So do you get called septic often?

    Septic nooo Ascerbic, (sp?) yes, but you have me here.....?

    Perhaps my trade name HoneyBeeGood, is simular to some product on your side of the world is all I can guess?

    But them I am JUST the little old bottle washer in this here outfit.
    Sink hugging does limit ones brain.

    Explaination please?

    Western American Xpats in Britian

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Sorry....I frequent a few British forums and they call me Septic because I am American. I was just wondering if that is a common trend there?
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,238

    Default

    >>You can tell how much energy a keepers puts in to his/her bees just by the condition of the hives and equipment .


    Keith, I am told there are tens of thousand of hive losses associated to CCD. I have seen a list of some of the beekeepers effected by this problem. It would seem hard to believe some of those beekeepers would be ignorant to the craft of beekeeping.

    >>"Black old drone comb, the bees that were alive were mited up, and had low stores & Old queens"

    Is that a common amoung beekeepers experiencing losses?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sparkill, NY
    Posts
    110

    Default

    I think the media is over dramatizing this. It's what they do. I read a headline somewhere today that said, "Are Cell Phones Wiping Out Our Bees?"

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Sad

    Heres the cell phone link.Another article full of errors and speculation.

    http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...cle2449968.ece

    Where will it end?

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    hbg sezs:
    Interviewed were Damiel Weaver TX Pres Am Beekeeping Fed (If I got that right?) very well spoken and level headed IMO

    tecumseh replies:
    that would be Daniel Weaver who heads up bee weaver apiaries and is the son of Beneford Weaver. in a former life Daniel was a lawyers so yes I would expect him to be well spoken. I should also add that neither beneford nor daniel are set behind the desk type beekeepers.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    "one of Britians biggest beekeepers lost 23 of his 40 hives"
    If he is one of the biggest I guess Britian has nothing to worry about. Interesting read; I have three cell phones and my bees are still in the hive.
    As long as everybody is just throwing theories to the media....I think I have solved CCD. The headline would read...HONEY BEES ON STRIKE VACATIONING IN BAHAMAS DEMANDING MORE BLOSSOM DIVERSITY IN ORCHARDS.
    Last edited by bluegrass; 04-15-2007 at 09:24 AM.
    Always question Conventional Wisdom.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,196

    Default

    Ian wrote,

    > It would seem hard to believe some of those beekeepers would be ignorant to the craft of beekeeping.

    Ian, not really, I see it all the time. I saw beekeepers trying to run three framers in the almonds. This industry is in a shake out phase. I keep hearing about all these losses but I still havent seen or heard of one keeper with this problem. I have had keepers try to jump on the band wagon and call it CCD, for the sake of embaressment of their hive management or lack of.

    I also heard on NPR radio, a Queen breeder from Texas and a reseacher trying to drum up support for this CCD and of course ,lobby for money. I was disappionted in what I heard.

    Keith

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