Sun vs Shade

[Fuzzy]

As the previous thread "temporary shade" had gotten a bit off track I decided to start a new one.

I do not dispute the contention that hives in full sun are more productive. The bees are generally more active, and by direct observation they start about a month earlier and finish about a month later than the hives in full shade. They also swarm faster and more frequently than hives in full shade. I can say that my hived in full sun, with "temporary" shade during the peak season are extremely productive anyway.

>As for bearding....who cares? -- I do. In my opinion it is a sign of extreme stress that is unnecessary and I have the ability to control it.

>That's because hollow trees are usually in the woods. -- Ain't no hollow trees around here (city folk and all). They are generally building full nests on well shaded branches in trees. Easy pickins though.

Now, to all of you who have lost hives in the northeast this year. First my condolences. But second, a lot of you described them brooding up too early. So, think about this, had they been in full shade, would they still have brooded up so early? My personal, local, experience is that the ones in the shade are 3-6 weeks slower -- somewhat dependent upon air temps. Perhaps your losses would have been lower.

Ok, now you can start throwing rocks. -- Fuzzy

[Ross]

I'm in Texas. My hives are in full sun.

As for bearding....who cares? -- I do. In my opinion it is a sign of extreme stress that is unnecessary and I have the ability to control it.

I find opening a top entrance to vent the excess heat is just as effective on bearding as shade. It preserves the early brooding and faster buildup of the full sun without risking more SHB intrusion.

I do not dispute the contention that hives in full sun are more productive.

Then why would you ever want to change it? I find no evidence that swarming is increased by full sun unless you just aren't managing the increased brood production. If shade decreases swarming by limiting brood production then I'll pass.

[BjornBee]

Thank you Ross. Anyone who has read my comments or been to my place has no doubt seen my upper entrances and use of SBB. I normally do not see bearding unless I take the supers off early and compact the bees into too few boxes. Of course if the temps outside are higher than required for brood temperature (92 degrees) then its inevitable that some bearding is going to happen. More bees fanning, or more bees keeping brood warm...not sure the productuion value. Both can be considered stress fcators.


Yes fuzzy, you can control this "stress" as you say by placing temporary shade controls. My point was, and I fail to understand your logic in suggesting "more productive" in regards to me already saying that the main flow is over. Unless you have different flows through July and August that we don't have here around the east coast, and yet to be suggested by you. I just don't equate temporary shade being more productive through the hottest (and driest) part of the year (orto lower stress), and somehow equating that as "production".

But I somehow really do see some on the left coast placing little bamboo huts or umbrellas up for the girls. I'm shocked out in California you can actually even keep bees without proper coding of such "heat dispensing" devices.

For me, I'll go with my proper equipment setup and know the bees will do fine.

[Ron Young]

Full Sun for my bees. They will get shade after about 4:00 PM during the summer. I have slatted racks and screened bottoms. I will keep in mind giving them a raised roof for upper entrance when it is 90 - 100 degrees.

[Dee]

When I first started keeping bees I had two locations (my house and my dads house). At my house I had them in the sun and in the late afternoon they were shaded; at dads house they were in full shade. I noticed a definate difference in population and honey production.

Due to bear problems I moved the hives at my house to my backyard which has only full sun. I've seen bees flying as early as 530am and as late as 930pm during the summer - but not at my dads house! So those hives at dads soon found themselves in full sun.

No doubt I regret it when I'm working the hives in the blistering sun but in the long run I feel it's better for them.

As for bees living in the woods...
The woods at my father-in-laws has a very large clearing and in the middle of it is a few trees. Now of all the possible "bee trees" in those woods they picked the one tree in full sun.
I've read before that there are nectar sources that are only available at certain times of the day - so if the bees dont get out soon enough then they will miss out on that source I would assume?

[Oldbee]

SHADE in the SUNSHINE STATES! Shade in the afternoon in the others.

[Fuzzy]

As to the question of flows. Yes, I suspect our flows are quite different. I am in an extremely moderate climate (except for the crazy peaks). It is also a lushly landscaped and irrigated area. We have some flow most all year round. The prime is Mar-Jun. But the bees will bring in 1-2 supers from Jul-Aug. This last year I had one bring in 3 supers between the end of Sep an the first of Nov ( that was unexpected ). Between Nov and Feb they brought in another 40lbs and put it in the brood box.

As for productivity, it is my observation that once they start bearding the hive is too hot. The bees still in the hive are roaring, trying to cool the hive
Thus burning energy and shortening their lives. While they are bearding there are virtually no flights except to bring water. By providing some shade in the extreme temp range the bearding stops, the hive quiets down and the flight pattern is near normal. So, in my opinion, the productivity is better.

Fuzzy

[Troy]

Sounds to me like we all have different results and I think for me at least the difference is made by the hive beetle.

If I had no hive beetles, I'd follow the old wisdom of morning sun and afternoon shade. Especially because I am in Orlando FL and the summer afternoons here are blistering hot. I could then work the hives in the afternoon in the shade and I'd be a whole lot happier too.

For me though, I have found that the more shade they have the more SHBs they have too. The more SHBs they have the more likely they are to run into trouble and die.

Last year every hive I had in partial or full shade died out or absconded due to SHB infestation. So this year, the hives will be in as sunny locations as I can find.

[sierrabees]

In one of my yards I had ten hives on a trailor rigged with a bear fence. The strongest hive this spring is on the southeast corner of the trailer. The weakest hives and the first ones to fail this winter were the ones with the entrance shaded by the fenders of the trailer. All of the hives on the north side of the trailer with their entrances facing away from the sun have done poorly and 4 out of 5 were lost over the winter. The one survivor on that side was on the east end and got more morning sun than the others.

In my yards where the bees are on pallets, four to a pallet, the ones on the southeast corner and the ones facing due south have consistantly done better than the ones partially shaded by the southern most hives. I lost most of the in the less sunny locations.

Since most of my losses show the typical symptoms of CCD, ie queen present, stores present, a handfull of bees left but no dead bees in the hive, I have concluded that the stress of less warmth from the sun during the winter may have been the factor that made the differance.

Last summer these same hives thrived at temperatures over 100 degrees F.

I intend to position all of my remaining hives and any new ones with full sun except possable late afternoon shade and all enterances facing southeast to get the morning sun.

[tecumseh]

sierrabee sezs:
Since most of my losses show the typical symptoms of CCD, ie queen present, stores present, a handfull of bees left but no dead bees in the hive, I have concluded that the stress of less warmth from the sun during the winter may have been the factor that made the differance.

tecumseh replies:
I recently read an old bee journal article that directly suggested that the incident of nosema disease was highly dependent on the orientation of the hives entrance.

figuring out how to position a four way pallet with all four hives placed in the proper direction might be a bit difficult.

[GerryL]

Bearding? I'm a novice what is the meaning of the term.
Thanks