View Poll Results: What do you think is the cause of CCD?

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  • GM plants

    1 2.00%
  • neonicotinoid based chemicals

    5 10.00%
  • Other pesticides other than neonicotinoids

    0 0%
  • Pesticide buildup within the hive from beekeepers

    5 10.00%
  • Multiple items working together such as stress, nutrition, management practices, etc.

    23 46.00%
  • E.L.F

    1 2.00%
  • Unknown viral or bacterial issues

    2 4.00%
  • A known but older virus seen before, perhaps mutated. Stone brood, etc.

    2 4.00%
  • Mite resistance and overload

    3 6.00%
  • Other

    8 16.00%
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Thread: So what is CCD?

  1. #21
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    >Before sunspots . . .
    Sorry, I should of said "electric cars"

  2. #22
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    I witnessed the bees avoiding the corpse of their sister. (Wrote about it too) Stop calling my magazine a "rag."

    dickm

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickm View Post
    I witnessed the bees avoiding the corpse of their sister. (Wrote about it too) Stop calling my magazine a "rag."

    dickm
    My deepest and sincerest apologies Dick.

    It was a good article. I forgot you had written it. And I say "rag" with all the kindest and most wonderful thoughts in mind!
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  4. #24
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    Thanks. I would have liked a conclusion somewhere. The bee corpse that was avoided was not that dramatic. Perhaps a half inch. Still, a lot of experts thought it was quite unusual. But how often do you plop a dead bee down in a bunch of bees? I heard a long time ago there are "undertaker bees" that hold themselves apart and just do the one thing. This controls the spread of disease. In this light it doesn't seem so unusual.

    dickm

  5. #25
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    Here's one possible causal factor that seem viable - no hard evidence though.

    http://www.rense.com/general75/HONEY.HTM
    John Seets
    ...When seconds count, 911 is just minutes away....

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Seets View Post
    Here's one possible causal factor that seem viable - no hard evidence though.

    http://www.rense.com/general75/HONEY.HTM
    Oh boy, I hope you've got your kevlar skivvies on
    - Ann, a Gardening Beek

  7. #27
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    Lightbulb What is it?

    It must be the aliens, all the missing bees can likly be found in Area 51.

  8. #28
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    A few cats die, and the whole country is running around in panic. A few bees...well I can understand the lack of concern. What does baffle me is HOW FREAKIN FAST they can tell me what caused the death of a few cats. But ask the bee industry to confirm a pesticide or two inside a hive, and its 6 months and counting.

    Seems as if the pace of information, and thus research(?) has slowed to snails pace. Right on cue, since I figured as much with the pending checks around the corner....

  9. #29
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    They should have hired veterinarians to do the work. Many of us have done residencies and additional doctorates in things like epidemiology, infectious diseases/parasitology, large scale food production, pathology, virology and toxicology.

  10. #30
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    Aspera, with some of the leading experts in the same backyard as you, you should contact them and volunteer your services! I would hope they would appreciate it, especially based upon your academic background... I know that those of us that are patiently waiting for the diagnosis would welcome your help.

  11. #31
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    Excellent idea Jeff! Maybe thats whats needed. A volunteer with no personal motive, no ego, and no personal agenda. A volunteer to just get something rolling without the politics, without the "Secure my job for the next umpteen years", and no personal grandios ideas of research papers with highlighted and bold authors names.

    Not sure about the volunteer thing. That would be up to Aspera. But I guess compared to the "paid" people, this volunteer idea may actually be a step in the right direction.

    Are you up for it Aspera? If of course they let you in the door....

  12. #32
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    Sure, I would love to help, although I'm a bit hesitant because people often view such offers as an annoyance. To be honest, money may also be a limiting factor. I know that Dr. Cox-Foster runs her lab based on fruit fly grants, and is probably not going to gain much for her efforts (other than our thanks).

    I'll send an email on Tuesday after I get this ^?&%@#!!! training grant done.
    Last edited by Aspera; 04-06-2007 at 06:20 PM.

  13. #33
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    > A volunteer with no personal motive, no ego, and no personal agenda.
    > A volunteer to just get something rolling without the politics, without
    > the "Secure my job for the next umpteen years", and no personal
    > grandios ideas of research papers with highlighted and bold authors names.

    Have you any idea how insulting that comment is to people who have
    dropped their work on things that will result in published papers, ego
    enhancing rewards, and spent weeks doing nothing but trying to
    puzzle out what killed the affected yards?

    Have you any idea that these folks are risking their futures, spending
    money that was budget for other purposes doing this work, knowing
    full well that they may not have anything to show for their hard work
    except a list of things that CCD is NOT?

    It is easy to sit back and make paranoid critical comments from a
    comfy chair in front of a computer, but it is much harder to
    bet one's job
    on the chance of adding some value to a group effort
    that may or may not even yield a tangible result.

    Why do so many beekeepers hold such disdain for the exact same
    science that makes it possible for them to keep bees?

    Why do so many beekeepers hold such disdain for the exact same
    researchers that are risking a minimum of a very poor performance
    review for daring to help on what could turn out to be a serious
    problem for beekeepers?

    Wouldn't it have been easier for them to have stuck to their
    knitting, and kept working on whatever they were supposed to be
    working on?

  14. #34
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    It is easy to sit back and make paranoid critical comments from a
    comfy chair in front of a computer, but it is much harder to
    bet one's job on the chance of adding some value to a group effort
    that may or may not even yield a tangible result.


    Who's parole are you on?

    Why do so many beekeepers hold such disdain for the exact same
    science that makes it possible for them to keep bees?


    ...because the reigns are held by those with power, money and profit margins to fill.
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    - Socrates

  15. #35
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    Jim,
    If its insulting Jim, thats your opinion. I offered my opinion. An opinion that points out the positives of having someone outside the group with no set agenda. A person from the "field" so to speak. A place where many good ideas and results come from. Its no secret I have been critical of the bee industry in the past. Probably will continue to do so in the future.

    Not sure who's "sitting around in front of a computor" as you say. As soon as its published, I'll point out the latest contribution from my part. I had given(donated) 50 hives for research. Thats 50 hives I did not "super" due to the testing. Thats 50 hives I did not move into pollination. I figured I reached into my families pocket for about $3,000 dollars. May not sound like much to you. But I made that decision regardless of it being alot to me. Funny thing is, the paper was rejected by one of the major bee mags as not being what the readers wanted. They felt it was too "research" oriented, and not entertaining enough. So we are trying to have it published in a Entomology/Science publication. It had to do with side by side comparisions of mite products on the market, among other items. But I guess "entertainment" is valued more, as the mag said, "thats what the readers expect."

    I also have made information known as soon as I have come across it, heard about it, or thought of it. I had much information early on in regards to nutrition, stress, and other posible angles. I made the information known here on beesource. It was only after I posted such ramblings and thoughts, that I heard from others with comments such as "I have been researching this angle also, my information is being published in the April ABJ" and so on. I have a bitter taste in my mouth Jim, when so much is on the line and people are losing everything, and we have to wait 2 or 3 months for someone to add to the pot of information becuase the primary focus is getting a paper published. That may be the way the ball bounces, but I'll be critical just the same.

    Jim, Not really 100% sure of your comment. The "knitting" part throws me off. You say others are sticking their necks out. Thats what I do also. I know some will be critical of my words. Some will hold it against me in the future. My business may even see an impact. I would never allow myself to change to be more "PC" correct if it came to making an extra dollar, or if it meant changing my way I see it or tell it.

    I don't want to single people out. My comments are from a broad base of comments in regards to the bee industry as a whole. I think this industry is fractured, behind the times, we get little bang for the buck in past research efforts, we are far behind other countries in many key areas, with areas of research being personally driven, etc. I see little help sitting back and not voicing opinions, no matter what they are. Mine just happens to be critical. Thats "critical" from a beekeeper who's not afraid of standing up an helping though.

    I know much in research comes from private efforts and people in the field. I made a comment that maybe adding some effort such as Aspera, as an "outsider" would be a good thing. As snowglobe has commented, Those with power, money, and profit margins will benefit the most. But I feel its everyone elses responsibility to hold their feet to the fire and demand more from this industry.

    As a side note Jim, perhaps you know of the grant money used to help get drone comb up and running. Its a shame that any testing on the product came to a screaching halt once the grant money was handed out. If you don't know the story, let me know. I'll take the time to type it out. I'll withhold doing so here, as again, my point is not to single out individuals. But this example is a good illustration of how the money effects the end results and how we are getting far less results than we should.

  16. #36
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    There is *no* reason for acrimony here. Its a tough problem, and I'm sure that we all have different ideas as to how it should be solved. I don't think that there is any planned slow-down or major wastage of resources here. Nor are vast sums of money (for the researchers) or power at stake. However I would also add that my brief stint working with large scale agriculture (2,000-8,000 head dairies) taught me that producers are often skeptical of research, and usually with good reason. They have financial, labor and real world constraints that are eliminated from research *out of necessity*. Science is slow, expensive, and not always correct (by statistical definition, 10% of the best published results are bull***t). These are limitations that we are all up against and I think that everyone can appreciate that healthy bees, honeybee profits, and quality research are three distinct goals and none will ever fully be met.
    Last edited by Aspera; 04-07-2007 at 09:51 AM.

  17. #37
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    Bjorn,

    What Jim said

    >>>and we have to wait 2 or 3 months for someone to add to the pot of information becuase the primary focus is getting a paper published.<<<<

    Where in hades did you get this idea? You are the one who's trying to gat a paper published aren't you?

    Dickm

  18. #38
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    For the latest, read Jerry Bromenshenk on Bee-l today. Also has a few comments on money.

    Dickm

  19. #39
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    Please Dick, I have no intentions of writing a paper or getting published. Please do not confuse my willingness to participate in studies and help in whatever way I can, without mixing up any comment I make with others who are motivated by being published. Trying to get a paper published with results of equipment options and chemical use is one thing. Holding imformation that could perhaps shed light and help those in need at the moment, is a different matter.

    I am amazed at the response to my criticism in general terms. I made a few comments without names or personal attacks. I hope nobody felt a personal attack from my ramblings, unless they feel it was based on truth. But if the shoe fits, then wear it you may.....
    Last edited by BjornBee; 04-07-2007 at 04:55 PM.

  20. #40
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    Bjorn, You wrote:

    >>>>>Funny thing is, the paper was rejected by one of the major bee mags as not being what the readers wanted. They felt it was too "research" oriented, and not entertaining enough. So we are trying to have it published in a Entomology/Science publication. It had to do with side by side comparisions of mite products on the market, among other items. But I guess "entertainment" is valued more, as the mag said, "thats what the readers expect."<<<<<

    Then you wrote:
    >>>>>I have no intentions of writing a paper or getting published.<<<

    ??


    Dickm

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