View Poll Results: What do you think is the cause of CCD?

Voters
50. You may not vote on this poll
  • GM plants

    1 2.00%
  • neonicotinoid based chemicals

    5 10.00%
  • Other pesticides other than neonicotinoids

    0 0%
  • Pesticide buildup within the hive from beekeepers

    5 10.00%
  • Multiple items working together such as stress, nutrition, management practices, etc.

    23 46.00%
  • E.L.F

    1 2.00%
  • Unknown viral or bacterial issues

    2 4.00%
  • A known but older virus seen before, perhaps mutated. Stone brood, etc.

    2 4.00%
  • Mite resistance and overload

    3 6.00%
  • Other

    8 16.00%
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Thread: So what is CCD?

  1. #1
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    So what is CCD?

    It's been around for about six months. You've heard the stories. You've seen the debates. You've had time to ask questions, analyze comments, seek information, and form an opinion. So what do you think CCD is? Take the poll....

  2. #2
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    Ummmm....what poll? :confused:
    - Ann, a Gardening Beek

  3. #3
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    Default

    Sorry Ann, its a two part entry, and i type slow....

  4. #4
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    Default

    Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll
    Wow, I guess we need some of those fired federal prosecutors,
    as this seems a clear case of voter fraud!

  5. #5
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    Believe it or not, I don't think that we have enough information to be at the point where we can make anything other than an assumption. And you know what it means to assume. Right?

    Seriously, I don't think we can answer this question yet.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  6. #6
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    Where it may be hard to believe, and perhaps mathematically improbable, what about bad luck. One plans on what one can do in the future according to what one successfully accomplished in the past. What do you get when the weather and nectar flows work against you?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  7. #7
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    Mark, its a closed poll. You mean if you were at my home for dinner, you would suggest I have no reason to ask you what you "THINK" CCD is? Its like asking "who do you think will be next president?" I can speculate, assume and give my opinion, whether I can see the future or not.

    So untill we have the facts and know 100% the answer, we can not ask prior to what peoples thoughts are? Thats what polls do. Its not a poll of "Whats 2 plus 2". Polls are questions asking what people thoughts are, what they use, and other various matter.

    Come on. Like you can't say what you "think" CCD is, cause the facts are not all in.....

    I believe it....NOT!

  8. #8
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    Should I just guess Bjorn? I mean I have no idea! You suggest that by now I should have evaluated the evidence and come to a conclusion but golly, there's plenty of speculation and precious little hard evidence to be had. The CCD working group is being tight-lipped regarding what if anything they're coming up with, or even what direction they're leaning. There are rumors.. and there are reports of big-time reticence on the part of affected big-time beekeepers to even admit they're having a problem. On Bee-L there are folks who are claiming CCD is a figment of people's imagination, that there are no "major calamitous colony losses" at all as evidenced by there being plenty of bees in the almonds and that package and queen prices and delivery schedules are "normal".

    On the other hand, balancing the naysayers, people with a pet peeve are convinced they know what's causing CCD- GM crops, pesticides, sunspots, what have you. It reminds me of the saying "if all you have is a hammer, all your problems will be nails." Lose a lot of hives to mites last year? Then CCD is caused by mites.

    So I'm still clueless. I voted "other"
    Dulcius ex asperis

  9. #9
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    I am truly sorry George to put you through any agonizing thought process. I perhaps should ask those that have not formed any opinion on the matter to not vote. I really did not think asking a simple question as "What do you think CCD is?" would be that big of a deal.

    I had planned a follow up question asking "What do you base your opinion on" but see now that this probably would of had people dropping on the floor. Based on the complexity of the first question that some have proposed, I am glad I withheld.

  10. #10
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    Well Bjorn, my opinion is that I don't know and don't know enough about what is going on in other beekeepers hives to want to venture a guess.

    I talked to David Hackenberg over a month ago and got his perspective. I have known Dave for 15 years or more and respect his observations and believe what he described to me. But I haven't seen first hand what others have, in my own operation. As far as I can tell.

    So, what is causing it? Someone with evidence will have to tell me.

    I did vote. I voted for other.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BjornBee View Post
    I am truly sorry George to put you through any agonizing thought process. I perhaps should ask those that have not formed any opinion on the matter to not vote. I really did not think asking a simple question as "What do you think CCD is?" would be that big of a deal.
    Oh don't apologize Bjorn, it's a worthwhile question, a reasonable poll, and of course, an important topic. I just haven't got a clue

    Right now, if you put a gun to my head I'd say CCD was caused by complications due to mites complicated by chemical use both in hives and on fields, of course, further complicated, by stress resulting from poor nutrition and excessive splitting, COMPLICATED by being pushed to produce 13 months a year while being carted around the country and forced to live in bee ghettos.

    They're demoralized stressed out bees. My name for this syndrome: Beepression

    But you don't have a gun to my head... so I'll just say "I dunno yet"

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  12. #12
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    Hey Moderator. How come my dot isn't green, meaning I'm online. Cause I am and it isn't.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #13
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    Big Grin holy !!

    holy flame war batman
    MCQ

  14. #14
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    Well I don't know how to vote exactly.

    Personally, I think it is multiple factors working together (ie stress, nutrition, chemicals in comb, mgmt practices, etc. etc..)

    BUT... I think those multiple factors work together to limit the colonies ability to ward off or control either a known (but maybe mutated) or an unknown viral/bacterial issue....

    That puts me wanting to chose up to 3 things. (Maybe I could have and didn't read closely enough)

    I still think there is some level of contagious effect.

    An interesting article in one of the latest rags (ABJ I think) mentioned that a soggy wet dead bee was taking from one of the hives affected by CCD. It was placed on a frame of healthy bees and the healthy bees moved back as if repelled by this one dead bee. Strange... but obviously correlates to the known fact that many of these colonies are untouched by SHB, robbers, or wax moths for up to 2 weeks.

    I am not edumacated enough as some other people here to make a scientific guess but just my opinion that there ultimately is some sort of viral/bacteria issue which wreaks havoc as a result of other multiple factors at work.
    Dan Williamson
    B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/

  15. #15
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    I'll be honest, I haven't tried answering the poll yet because these, IME, usually let you pick just one answer.

    Dan Williamson said almost exactly what I've been thinking.

    I've eliminated some of the choices in my mind, but I'm still left with three, give or take, of the options in the poll.

  16. #16
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    I think it works this way. Each of the stressors acts by shortening bee lives. They normally live (say) 6 weeks. High levels of pesticide in the hive= 5 weeks. Poor nutrition due to drought= 4 weeks. A 1500 mile move= 3 weeks. At 3 weeks of life nurse bees will be forced early into foraging. Since the older bees don't die all at once, naturally they die when out and working. Result: an empty hive with a few young bees, not enough to cover the brood, and a queen.

    Of course this wouldn't explain my 15 hives which have never been moved or medicated. (Except O/A.)

    dickm

  17. #17
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    I think that it is odd that there are no dead bees in/around the hive. How do you find the cause of death if there are no bodies? I think the problem has something to do with bee navigation. As far as they're telling us the brood left in the hive is "healthy".

  18. #18
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    All of my bees were OK, even though they were pretty weak going into winter. I fed them sugar water 1:1. They seem to be building up right now. ALL of my bees are feral from swarms, cutouts and trapouts. Some are mean, some run like crazy on the comb when you inspect their hive, but they seem to not be suffering from CCD. I also use no foundation in my frames. I am not getting on a high-horse about these methods either. My TBH is REALLY well populated right now and doing the best of all. Last year was tough on my bees because it was so dry (in Blanco), especially for late -acquired hives. The hives are located in Brenham, TX now and are in an area that seems to be too wet. Some of the comb had mold growing on it. When I inspected last I removed it. One last observation: Most of the queens in my hives seemed to only want to lay in new comb. The older brood comb the old timers say queens love so much my queens seem to leave alone in preference of newly drawn brood comb (tan comb, not white or dark brown).
    I hope for the best for you and your bees
    Cheers

  19. #19
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    You asked for "hot air", so . . . .

    The "problems" that we "see" are mite-based. We do not understand V-mites well enough to even raise them in a lab, how can we understand what we see in our hives? There is a lot to learn about what they are doing to our bees. But, what is described as CCD has been recorded many times in the past, long before mites, long before pesticides, GMO, and "sunspots". I'll place my bet on weather/bee management that we haven’t yet mastered. To solve problems like mites and CCD, we first must know more about “normal” bees.

  20. #20
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    Big Grin

    Before sunspots?!?!

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