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Thread: CCD thoughts

  1. #21
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    > Jim, How do you know his (Kieth) bees were not exposed?

    He has seen no symptoms, he has not had his hives near any hives
    that have shown symptoms, and the working group reports that
    the problem seems to spread between hives with ease (weird,
    given the lack of robbing, don'tcha think?)

    Therefore, it is more than reasonable to conclude that Keith's hives
    simply have not been exposed to whatever this is. People looking
    at it at close range, people with experience in looking at bee diseases,
    keep saying that this "looks like a pathogen".

    > I am only explaining what's working in my and other operations, far
    > more than the CCD camp is doing.

    I'm not sure if you are being critical of the beekeepers who have lost
    the bulk of their hives, or the team working to find the problem's cause.

    The beekeepers who have been hit by this problem can be excused for
    not sitting down and writing about their experience for your entertainment,
    as they might have better things to do right now, like re-negotiate with
    the bank, rustle up some replacement hives, and deal with the massive
    inventory of dead-out woodenware in an attempt to at least salvage their
    drawn comb (assuming that they can reuse it, which also seems to still
    be an unanswered question).

    The team working on the problem can also be excused for no providing
    more updates for your education and entertainment. They are kinda
    busy. Jerry B. has been posting to Bee-L from time to time, and this
    is about the best we can expect in the way of "updates from the field".

    There were beekeepers who blamed the problem on poor management
    practices in loud and insulting tones weeks ago, only to later find that
    their hives were also collapsing in large numbers.

    Talk about instant Karma, eh?

    We don't know yet.
    No one knows for sure.
    Speculation is fine, but let's not blame the beekeepers who are now
    staring bankruptcy in the face. They've got enough problems right
    now, and don't need more.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Amador County, Calif
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    Jim,
    In your answer to Bjorn, you thought Keith's bees were not expose to CCD.
    In my recent post, I said others around me were crying from CCD. Two keepers had so called losses of CCD, and were around me this summer.



    Keith

  3. #23
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    Jan 2003
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    Sorry to take off topic, and in between an argument.

    Just a quick question that has been on my mind.

    Has there been any evidence towards an aspergillus fungal infection in the CCD effected hives? I believe its known as stone brood, it is something that I have never encountered as far as I know of. But its symptoms seem to represent much of the common symptoms of CCD,.?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #24
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    May 2002
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    >>>Has there been any evidence towards an aspergillus fungal infection in the CCD effected hives? I believe its known as stone brood, <<<

    Dennis van Englesdorp has been hot on the trail of this. It turns out that the stuff is everywhere. He thought that a mutated strain could be the cause because it's everywhere. (Soils etc.) I guess it's one of those things (like E.Coli) that can be benign or fatal. It can cause a kind of meningitis that can kill people. It's used in the fermentation of HFCS; it's used in the GM preparation of synthetic insulin. These are just some I came across without looking. To answer your question, yes, it's been found but can't be convicted.

    dickm

  5. #25
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    Apr 2005
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    Salem, Oregon
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    Jim, I just don't think we're ready to rule out beekeeper error just yet.
    And I sure do not say this as a slap in the face of those that have suffered the losses.
    Most of us know some awfully good beekeepers that have suffered a hefty crash somewhere along the line. In fact it has appeared to me that those beekeepers emerged from their bad year, a MUCH better beekeeper. They watch things closer.
    Here's another concern that I have had:
    I have gone to some State conventions, that every single presentation was about mites. Often at bee meetings or here on the web, I notice first year beekeepers totally consumed with mites.
    Do they even grasp the lifecycle of the bee yet?
    How about Nutrition? I really think a lot of basic beekeeping is being overlooked at times.
    I expressed this to George Hansen years ago when I ran my first Oregon convention. I asked him, "What should be our theme?"
    He replied, "Anything but mites?"
    I thought that was a good one. We learned a lot about beekeeping anyway.
    I'm not pointing the finger here. I am really making an effort to pay more attention to nutrition, queens, etc.... blah, blah, blah
    Our bees have wintered much better since.
    . . . . . . .

    Keith, I added the signature after watching some awfully good people getting caught up in the "snake oil of the week" treatments. To the "Works for me!!!" post is a nonanswer, feel good, replacement for the old saw: "Ignorance is bliss".
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  6. #26
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    May 2003
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    Farmington, New Mexico
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Fischer View Post
    ...and it should be clear to all that these guys are spending money to
    look at CCD that was not in the budget, possibly taking money away
    from planned work that needs to be done.

    [/SIZE][/SIZE]
    Well, it's not clear to me. And the reason it's not clear that those who are actually doing whatever research has been done haven't bothered to inform the several thousand of us here about what progress they are making.

    The team working on the problem can also be excused for no providing more updates for your education and entertainment. They are kinda
    busy. Jerry B. has been posting to Bee-L from time to time, and this
    is about the best we can expect in the way of "updates from the field".
    This indicates that those of us who would like to know more aren't worth taking a few minutes to talk to. That's fine. But if someone wants increased funding for a project from taxpayers, they would do well to explain to taxpayers and beekeepers why they need them to contact their senators and representatives and voice support for funding.

    Do us a favor, those of you who are in contact with the researchers and bee lab folks. Tell them that many of us would like to know what they're doing, how it's going, and what we can do to help support it when it comes time to dragging more of our money out of the legislators. If they can't bring themselves to address the people whose money they're going to be asking for, they can't realistically expect a huge wave of phone calls and emails on their behalf.

  7. #27
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    May 2002
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    Hi Coyote,
    It's lonely out here in the sidlines isn't it. When I was close to the story it was impressed on me that the investigators were real people. They weren't the gubmint employees that take 2 hours for lunch. They were working on weekends and doing a lot of travelling. If they never come out with a theory or proof that would be a finding. In other wordss, what's been eliminated may be more important than what's been found. They have no reason to hold anythig back. That tells me there is nothing fit to publish. I feel sure that a lot has been learned about the abnormality of a normal hive.

    dickm

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickm View Post
    Hi Coyote,
    It's lonely out here in the sidlines isn't it. When I was close to the story it was impressed on me that the investigators were real people. They weren't the gubmint employees that take 2 hours for lunch. They were working on weekends and doing a lot of travelling. If they never come out with a theory or proof that would be a finding. In other wordss, what's been eliminated may be more important than what's been found. They have no reason to hold anythig back. That tells me there is nothing fit to publish. I feel sure that a lot has been learned about the abnormality of a normal hive.

    dickm
    I appreciate the work you did. It's been noted that there will be hearings coming up, and that the funding for bee research has been stagnant. I think it would be helpful if those of us who actually stay in contact with our representatives could help make the case that more money needs to be allocated. That's hard to do if the people who will probably be asking for help from Congress or the USDA don't help us by at least giving us some guidance about what's going on and where the bucks need to go.
    The more a constituent knows about the issue they're lobbying for, the better the reception on the part of their congress critter.

    If I talk to my Congressman in the next week or two, what should I tell him about increasing funding?

  9. #29
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    >>Dennis van Englesdorp has been hot on the trail of this. It turns out that the stuff is everywhere. He thought that a mutated strain could be the cause because it's everywhe

    Mites looked under a microscope look much like an ugly dust mop. Perhaps the mites are transfering the aspergillus fungal straight into the bees systems. Known symtoms of this infection are flying off, disorintation and dieing far from the hive.
    Just a thought.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

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