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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default got gas?

    not to throw a large monkey wrench (how many of you folks are old enough to know what a monkey wrench looks like... raise your hands) into everyone's thinking, I keep recalling an incident from about 20 years ago that keeps coming to mind with the ccd thingee. we (I was working for a commercial concern then) had a fellow set down next to us in east texas who (if memory serves) was a small commercial outfit from south dakota. all during the spring his bees never really took off, matter of fact some dwindled even though they seemed well provisioned. if the owner had seen the same bees, seperated by about 2 weeks, I would think the symptoms would have looked much like ccd (or whatever you might wish to call it this time). it seems he had made some tops out of some form of treated plywodd and the bees were being slowly gassed everytime the wood was exposed to rain or water.

    I guess why this come to mind is the odd symptom that the hives affected were not robbed out until the top is removed and the equipment is air out for a couple of days. sounds like some low level 'gas' would almost have to be present to mask the honey smell from all those unprotected hives especially in a commercial hive setting.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,468

    Default

    Wow, what a refreshing topic!

    I am simply getting tired of all this other crap being talked about causing CCD, and basically without any measure of thought! And frankly, I am having a hard time visiting topics on this forum, because I simply cant remember the difference in discussion between some of them,.. Not like I read them all, I just dont have time to read crap.

    >>knew anything about fall feeding, or understood the impact of low protein deficiency. I am sure many beekeepers will not need to fall feed.


    I think in a situation as you described, with a dearth Mid July to Sept is a prime time to stimulate. If I were in that situation, I think I could easily see the benefit of it. I wonder if a lbs or two will do anything? You see, I am considering the protein supplement would be much more, especially July to Sept. My hives are big in July, they would suck a lbs patty back in an afternoon if presented with a pollen dirth. I would think in your situation, your looking more like a feeding program taken place in the California yards.
    I dont think a late fall protein feeding program would be as simple.

    I am just wondering, about this whole protein deficiency, if the people investigating it have considered it in their assessments.
    Have they been drawing a correlation between hives moved to pollination from drought and/or heat stressed lands compared to non?
    We did pretty good up here last season, but I know not too far south of me guys were not getting much of anything. It is really hard for me to think the US Canadian boarder kept CCD away from us, but perhaps thats where the drought line extended to last season.
    Are there US beekeepers who produced a good crop, finding their hives fail to CCD after they were moved to California as well?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,468

    Default

    >>like some low level 'gas' would almost have to be present

    My plywood probably isnt any different than the plywood you fellow are using down there.
    I dont belive they used plywood back in the 1890's either
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
    Posts
    1,998

    Default

    Could this bad plywood have been made with some type of a formaldehyde polymer? I seem to recall such glues being part of "sick build syndrome" in new constructions.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    aspera ask:
    Could this bad plywood have been made with some type of a formaldehyde polymer?

    tecumseh replies:
    now I don't really recall aspera... gosh that had to be 20 plus years back and my old hard drive has been written on and wiped so many time I just can not recall.

    I still find the idea that stores would not be robbed in locations with extreme density in hive numbers to be extremely odd.

    Ian sezs:
    My plywood probably isnt any different than the plywood you fellow are using down there.
    I dont belive they used plywood back in the 1890's either

    tecumseh responds:
    don't know what the 1890's plywood comment is in regards to????. The glues used in various plywood are not all the same. Not a real expert in wood product department, but I would assume marine grade plywood's glue is quite stable and that as you worked you way down too interior plywood the glue would be quite unsable. although at this time (see comment to aspera above) I do not really recall if the 'issue' was about the glue used in the plywood or some perservative treatment to the plywood.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Default

    I use a nightmare of different kinds of equipment because I can't stop trying different ideas. Some of my hives are conventional store bought equipment, some have plywood tops or bottoms, some have preasure treated cleats under the bottom boards, etc. When I look at the empty equipment from my dead outs they seem to have about the same distribution of equipment type as my whole operation has. No more plywood than the survivors, nor more cleated hives than the survivors. This isn't a large enough sample to draw any conclusions from but it does suggest that the problem probably isn't chemicals in the wood.
    doug

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default New Thread on the CCD/beeloss/frustrated beekeeper forum

    Greetings,

    I am a new member, and this is my first post. Also know, I have not owned a hive in my life, but I am considering beekeeping as a hobby.

    I have read this thread through, and my thoughts are directed to the area of this thread that was discussing the nutritional requirements of bees.

    Please bear with me.....

    In my personnel life (In spite of being trained as an RPN) I have been seeking ways to stabilize and enhance my own immune system since the discovery that I am allergic to antibiotics due to over usage as a child. This was the way it was back then, so there is none to blame for this.

    I deal with a local health food store that is owned and operated by a woman who was also my trainer in the local hospital Emergency Department. We have many good conversations.

    One of these conversations was discussing the current produce that we all eat in Canada. Most of our vege's come from an area that I visit in Northern California, which is considered the salad bowl of North America.

    We discussed the depletion of the soil that has led to the need to supplement our diets... because the "carrot" although it continues to look like a carrot, does not contain the same nutrients that a carrot that my Grandmother ate when she was a child.

    Fast forward.... My daughter, who I have attempted to feed well her whole life, (she has always cooperated in this) has been unable to grow strong fingernails. They peel and always have looked like she chews her nails, when she has never done this. I brought this up to Linda, at the health food store, and she suggested a product, that I chose to take for myself since if my daughter was not getting this nutrition?...neither was I.

    When my daughter returned home from university that summer, I suggested that she supplement her diet with this product, (which had caused the strength in my nails to double). She chose to ignore me as daughters often do.

    A couple of months later we went to a department store, and she showed me in her shopping basket that she had chosen about $40 worth of potions that claimed that they would cause her to have healthy strong nails by applying them from the exterior of her body.

    Instead I dragged her to the health food store and suggested that she supplement her diet with this certain product. To make a long storey short. In about two weeks there was a ridge in her outgrowing nails that showed where the thickness in them had been doubled.

    To this day she continues to take the product, although intermittently, because her body level of "ingredients" to grown healthy nails has now been stabilized.

    Here are my thoughts....If through mass production of food, and through soil depletion, our food no longer carries the nutrients to sustain us as in the time of my Grandmother?....then I must also consider it possible that the nutritional value of pollen from these same crops may be starving, or leaving nutritional deficits in the diets of the bees.

    Sammi-Sasha
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    - Socrates

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
    Posts
    1,998

    Default

    Unusual fingernails is often regarded as a sign of trace mineral imbalence (either dietary or genetic). You may way to ask a physician who has done specialty training in nutrition. This is especially true if your daughter is of child bearing age. Unfortunately Fe, Zn, Cu, Mg and Ca deficiencies are still astonishing common in reproductive aged women. Its shameful I think.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default New Thread on the CCD/beeloss/frustrated beekeeper forum



    This is exactly right! Although I fed this girl well(according to the powers that be) , she still remained in a nutritional deficit.

    She is now in her last year training in "Public, and Environmental Health". I have no doubt that her own experiences will be brought forward as help to others..

    Sammi_Sasha
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    - Socrates

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Default

    Hi sammi_Sasha,
    I think you know me. I'm on my way to a bee meeting, but will get some information to you hopefully tomorrow regarding your questions you asked yesterday. I'll need to work something out.
    Welcome to beesource.
    BjornBee

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default New Thread on the CCD/beeloss/frustrated beekeeper forum

    Greetings BjornBee,

    Yes, I know of you, and perhaps you can better understand my mindset by the babblings above.

    When things sift together, I know that I will hear from you, and since I still remain "hive-less" then there remains lots of time.

    Be well!
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    - Socrates

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Default

    Snowglobe.
    Welcome to the list and to beekeeping. I hope you do well. Please be informed that things like nutrition and fingernails belong in tailgater. It's our simple way of keeping things straight so that when we go to a thread we don't get into a sidetrack. Once again, Welcome.

    dickm

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default New Thread on the CCD/beeloss/frustrated beekeeper forum

    Greetings Dickm,

    I intend to familiarize myself with this site, which I find very informative. I am sure that I will learn quickly where to put post on "nuts and bolts" etc quickly.

    Thanks for the welcome! This is appreciated!
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    - Socrates

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    so snowglobe just out of curiousity (cats being quite the curious creatures) what was the product the health store recommended for your nails?

    actually I am more than a bit curious since I suspect many of the commonly utilized miticides degrades exo-skeloton.

    ah yes... being an old navy man our greeting always takes the form... welcome aboard.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default New Thread on the CCD/beeloss/frustrated beekeeper forum

    Hello,

    The name of he product is Silicea.

    Here is the link to it's site.

    http://www.silicea.com.au/
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    - Socrates

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default New Thread on the CCD/beeloss/frustrated beekeeper forum

    These are my thoughts only, and should be taken as such.

    Greetings once again Tecumseh,

    Since I am already guilty of taking this thread off topic I thought that I might mention the other product that I consider a worthy "discovery".

    I am a sceptic, so when I suggest that something is productive to me, and those that I care about?...please take it within this context.

    I have found this product "worthy of consideration" for my children, myself, and others.

    Also, I have read in another thread a discussion as to essential oils for bees.

    http://www.florahealth.com/flora/hom...ucts/R7980.asp

    It is claimed that this is what was fed to the female star who trained for, and starred in the movie Million Dollar Baby.

    What I know is this, in our family it has helped my son with extreme training for the Police Force, and it has helped my daughter (the one who had weak nails)....to excel in Karate.

    Sammi_Sasha
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    - Socrates

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