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  1. #81
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    > 1. I will answer your question on my new web-page.

    Wait a second here... you started this thread with questions,
    and now you seem to want to posture as if you have some sort
    of "answers"? I'm very confused by your various statements here,
    given that you have ignored wide swaths of the information put
    out by the folks that are working with the affected colonies.

    You seem to have made up your mind as to the causes of CCD,
    and, regardless of what facts are offered by others, you persist
    with the same armchair diagnosis of bees you have never seen,
    and a set of conditions you haven't even bothered to read about.

    > 2. But for now, do you agree that we have to try to use
    > the reasonable solutions I posted above to fight the problems?

    No, I don't agree at all - your so-called "solutions" are things that
    may have no connection with CCD at all! Clearly, you seem to
    feel that varroa have something to do with CCD, but the report
    of CCD appearing in Hawaii (where it is well-proven that there
    are no varroa) implies that CCD has nothing to do with varroa,
    the viruses transmitted by varroa, or the general weakening of
    a colony that is beset with varroa.

    So, given that varroa seems to not be required for CCD to cause
    a colony to "collapse", can you now see that focusing on varroa
    is not going to "solve" the CCD problem?

  2. #82
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    Perkasie, PA
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    CCD in HI. Now that is strange. Has this been confirmed? If so it really could rule out a lot of infectious causes as they have reports of varroa. And if its in HI, why not New Zealand?

  3. #83
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    Jim,

    You mixed everything as always. Please do not put ANY MORE your words in my mouth.

    My first statement is here:
    “I think that there are at least two major problems in American beekeeping: 1) autumn and spring syrup feeding (instead of honey); 2) usage of chemicals as a bee management technique (prevention against mites, American foulbrood, and Nosema disease).”
    My previous statements are here:
    1. My main point is that you have to have healthy colonies to be prepared for new viruses or other problems (like #4).
    2. My second point is that your colonies will be weak if you use syrup and chemicals.

    My web page at least contains some practical recommendations.
    But were is your real proposal (recommendations) to keep colonies healthy?
    Are you a "chemical bandit " in Sheri’s classification?



    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 03-13-2007 at 06:21 PM.

  4. #84
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    May 2005
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    Whitefield, Maine USA
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    6,624

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    I don't know if it's been confirmed Aspera. Jerry Bromenshenk mentioned in an email to Bee-L today that:

    The comment is often made, if you control the mites, the virus issues are not a problem.

    How then, do we explain new reports that we have received from long-term,
    experienced beekeepers in Hawaii, who are also seeing what looks like CCD?
    It's the only reference I've heard so far about Hawaii and CCD. I don't think CCD has necessarily been confirmed in Hawaii. Perhaps Jim knows something I don't know.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  5. #85
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    > I don't think CCD has necessarily been confirmed in Hawaii.
    > Perhaps Jim knows something I don't know.

    Maybe I do, and then again, maybe I don't.

    I'm sure we will soon have adequate confirmation or refutation
    from multiple parties, so I'll wait for that, as I am not about to
    violate any confidences.

  6. #86
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    > You mixed everything as always.
    > Please do not put ANY MORE your words in my mouth.

    I quoted you using cut-and-paste, so I don't think
    I'm putting any words in your mouth.

    Perhaps the title of the thread "What is causing massive
    bee deaths in he US?
    " does not apply to your suggestions,
    but it should be clear by now to all and sundry that the factors
    you want to present as "problems" have nothing to do with the
    "massive bee deaths in the US".

    > I think that there are at least two major problems in American
    > beekeeping: 1) autumn and spring syrup feeding (instead of honey)

    That's an opinion, one that is contradicted by multiple studies in
    the USA and Canada done over the years. In each and every
    controlled study, honey came in dead last in terms of overwintering
    ability.

    > 2) usage of chemicals as a bee management technique (prevention
    > against mites, American foulbrood, and Nosema disease).

    Again, that's an opinion, one that can best be described as "fringe".
    While some would agree that certain "chemicals" are not a good
    idea at all (Check-Mite comes to mind here), there are other chemicals
    that have been shown to be harmless and have yet to result in
    resistance (Fumadil is a great example of this).

    > 1. My main point is that you have to have healthy colonies to be
    > prepared for new viruses or other problems (like #4).

    Sure, but your assumption is that anyone who disagrees with your
    prior statements will somehow have less healthy colonies. This sort
    of "holier than thou" claim is completely baseless and without merit.

    > 2. My second point is that your colonies will be weak if you use
    > syrup and chemicals.

    No one's ever shown this to be even close to fact.
    The statement is pure dogma, and once again, a "holier than thou"
    claim that is completely baseless, and without merit.

    > My web page at least contains some practical recommendations.

    If you want to discuss something, discuss it. If you simply want to
    drive some traffic to your web page, this is not the forum for that
    sort of effort. We went over "comb honey lifecycle costs" (and over,
    and over, and over, and over....) until you got more of a clue on
    actual life-cycle costs from myself and others, so I hope that your web
    page was corrected/improved as a result. I don't have the energy to
    slog through the same tedious process with your "answers looking for
    questions
    " on subjects like feeding and treatments, subjects that could
    fill several books and still be incomplete.

    > But were is your real proposal (recommendations) to keep
    > colonies healthy?

    I am a very conservative and by-the-book beekeeper, so I
    do not make up my own theories or proposals. I read the
    studies and the magazines, and (no surprise) books.
    Beekeeping is difficult enough without making things up
    as I go along.

  7. #87
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    Jul 2006
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    Grahamsville, NY
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    Jim,

    these two facts partially confirm my theory that the current massive deaths of bee colonies in the US are occurring because of the weak state of bee colonies:
    - "Apiaries in Webb, Mississippi in winter of 2000 had an opportunity to witness the Russian bees' durability thanks to a harsh winter. Of his1,500 domestic colonies, 1,200 to 1,400 were lost, whereas of his 2,000 Russian-bred colonies, only 2 didn't survive."
    (USDA web site)
    - "Charlie has decided not to treat these colonies for varroa saying "if they die, we don’t want them". This will greatly benefit the selection program but will cause Charlie to lose some colonies." More details are here: http://www.beebehavior.com/key_players.php
    And his bees are "breast-fed" !!!

    You did not answer for my main question: are you a "chemical bandit " in Sheri’s classification?

    P.S. My website contains practical, up-to-date information and I think that some
    beekeepers may find the site useful.
    The first part of my new article will be ready in one week.

    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 03-14-2007 at 09:27 AM.

  8. #88
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    Volga, SD
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    CCD was around in 2000?

    Mississippi has "harsh" winters? Does Mississippi ever have the sort of winter weather that would be likely to demonstrate differential survival between Russian bees and Italian bees (or any other bees)?

    Around here (South Dakota), we question whether Mississippi ever even has "winter."

  9. #89
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    Kiek,

    1. My post is not about CCD, my post is about "...the weak state of bee colonies..." – the first level in my classification. PLEASE try to understand this.
    2. "...Of his 1,500 domestic colonies (Not Russians !!!), 1,200 to 1,400 were lost, whereas of his 2,000 Russian-bred colonies, only 2 didn't survive."
    You can go to www.weather.com and check all data.
    Also you can contact USDA about winter 2000 situation.

    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 03-14-2007 at 09:17 AM.

  10. #90
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    Boris,

    Your first post -- the one that started this thread -- began:

    What is causing massive bee deaths in the US?

    There are reports of massive deaths of bee colonies in the US. . . . -Boris
    The "massive" losses of bee colonies this year have been attributed to CCD (Colony Collapse Disorder). Therefore, I was lead to believe that this thread is about CCD, not just ". . .the weak state of bee colonies. . . ."

    I obtained the papers about overwintering by Russian versus "domestic" colonies from the USDA. The example you cited in Webb, Mississippi, was reported by Hubert Tubbs, a USDA-ARS cooperator, as an example of reduced mite loads helping the bees overwinter more successfully, in his opinion.

    Dr. Rinderer, at the time, attributed part of the Russians' "superior winter survival to being highly resistant to tracheal mites, something that's still uncommon for standard commercial colonies."

    So, are we talking about CCD on this thread, or not? Do you know of "massive" losses this year that have not been attributed to CCD?

  11. #91
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    Grahamsville, NY
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    Kieck,

    1. You are talking about "External influences" of the current problem, but I would like to find the "roots".
    2. "...Winter 2000–2001. Winter was unusually cold and long during 2000-2001." USDA
    3. Please wait just One week. Let me finish the first part of my new article.

    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 03-14-2007 at 03:14 PM.

  12. #92
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    Boris,

    1. Huh?

    2. I recommend you go back and re-read the report that you're citing. I couldn't find any statements about "cold" or "long[-lasting]" in reference to the winter. The only description I could find was "harsh." I still say, what's "harsh" in Webb, Mississippi, may be "mild" or "not even winter weather" in South Dakota, much less points farther north.

    Honestly, I don't take any statements about bees' abilities to overwinter in the south to mean anything about their abilities to overwinter farther north. The conditions are considerably different.

    I lived in Kansas for a few years. Anytime the temperature dropped to 0F there, people complained bitterly. A frequent reaction when I mentioned that winter temperatures regularly get to -20F or -30F in South Dakota was, "Can people survive those temperatures?"

    Bees that overwintered easily in Kansas have grave difficulty surviving the winters in South Dakota. That's not saying that winters are easier on the bees in Kansas -- conditions are just different.

    3) I'm waiting, but I'd just like to know right now whether you were talking about the current "massive die-offs," or not.

  13. #93
    Join Date
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    Location
    Manitoba Canada
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    Boris suggested to Jim F.

    >>Jim,

    You mixed everything as always. Please do not put ANY MORE your words in my mouth.


    He is not mixing the pot, you are. And you just keep adding!
    Try not to mix thoughts with facts, it just confuses everything that is going on.
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  14. #94
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    Kieck and Ian,

    I will post the first part of my article with some scientists' comments in one
    week, as I promised. I hope you will get answers to your questions.

    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 03-15-2007 at 10:27 AM.

  15. #95
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    "This article is written by Graham White which is a digest of his letter sent to the UK Advisory Committee on Pesticides with regard to a systemic insecticide called IMIDACLOPRID.":
    http://www.bbka.org.uk/articles/imidacloprid.php

    Boris

  16. #96
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    Have you switched from lookings for the "roots" to looking for "external influences," Boris?

    If you haven't already found it, check out this thread:

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208409

    Imidacloprid is being discussed already, and the link you provided has been quoted on this other thread.

  17. #97
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    No, this is just a small part of my research.

    Boris
    Last edited by Boris; 03-16-2007 at 01:54 PM.

  18. #98
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    Oh, I thought you were using this thread to explore the "root" causes of "massive bee deaths," not trying to pin blame on any one chemical in particular.

    Still seems peculiar to me that U.S. beekeepers wouldn't have noticed any effects of imidacloprid on bees in general until almost twenty years after its introduction. Use of imidacloprid has been widespread in North America for years. Why wouldn't problems have shown up before this?

  19. #99
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    Mar 2005
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    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    We are having a great deal of discussion on the amount of lost hives being reported this year. Is anyone aware of any postings reflecting the numbers of reported losses to compare with previous years? Wouldn't it be helpful to have a view of the numbers per state? I'm assuming this is part of the researchers information and also many don't want to be pinpointed by location but certainly a statewide idea would not comprimise anyone.

  20. #100
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
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    992

    Exclamation

    JIm

    I would love to have a friendly wager when all is out on ccd...I'll bet you 100 to one that Imidacloprid and other like pesticides (goucho) are the reason. Sure there are colonies that die of other resons (mites and related causes, bad queens and on and on..... but from my experience and my connections to the research...I can tell you I am very confident that pesticides are the reason for ccd. One beek even had had most colonies turned around until a freeze which elimated pollen gathering...and the bees started using stored pollen.....bingo 40 more dead outs. Guess what is in the pollen>>>>>> dont bet me unless you want to loose....I dont bet unless I am confident I'll win!

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