When I went to pick up my new packages, the oldtimer was very interested in the top bar idea. He pulled down an old frame from the wall and showed me what they used to look like, with no foundation. The top bar was a triangle, with no foundation in the frame. He said that was the way they used to do it. Bees just built out their comb from the triangle. It looks like that shape would be a lot easier to mill than the shape I made (see pics at http://photos.yahoo.com/dn4911) I know some of you are gluing in strips of wood. Just wondered if any of you pros had seen or were aware of the old fashioned frames like that. I might just try some for replacement bars and see how they do.