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Any Top-Bar hive users?

73K views 467 replies 37 participants last post by  Michael Bush 
#1 ·
Just wondering if there was any body using top-bar hives,and maybe their experiences with them?I have two of them and three lang-style hives.Thanks JOHN
 
#53 ·
Hello,
I am basically a new beekeeper. I have always been interested in beekeeping, reading articles and taking courses from our local beekeeping club (NEOBA. This spring was my first year to have hives I started with a nuc, and found a swarm. I have been dismayed through out the last two years at the cost of beekeeping. So this year I begin to look for alternatives to the Langs. No one in our area is familar w/ any other method. However when talking to my Grandmother, she would tell me about her Dad's hives and what they looked like as best as she could recall.

So I started searching for something that matched her discriptions. I found James Satterfield's site.

From spring to now I'm positive that I don't like working w/ Langs. To heavy, costly for a hobbist. Besides I like comb honey.

Today I found this group, which has answered a lot of my questions. One that I still have is what is what are you coating the sides with, I don't understand the abbrivations letters.

Anyways - Very Good Information Thanks. I think I ready to venture out and try this type of hive reguardless of the styrotopes of this being the backwards way of beekeeping. To me costly, heavy and unnatural concept is outdated. Happy Thanksgiving
 
#54 ·
Are you asking what to coat the outside of the hive with? I use oil base paint, 2 coats over a base coat of primer. On one of my hives, I used spar urethane and it turned out beautiful. I think Michael Bush (I think that's who it was) said in another thread that he uses exterior latex paint. I'm sure either would do fine. I just have better luck with oil base in outside projects. I'm glad you have enjoyed reading the posts on this thread. It has been very informative.
 
#55 ·
I think you are refering to my reference to FGMO. That is Food Grade Mineral Oil. If you are a large beekeeper you can figure out how to get it in bulk, but if you're a small beekeeper, just buy the mineral oil at the drug store that is labeled for use as a laxitive. NOT baby oil. I think you could also use vegatable oil but the research on mites is using FGMO and that is what I use. I paint the inside of the sides sometimes and it just keeps the attachments from sticking as well and helps with the mites.


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited November 28, 2002).]
 
#56 ·
Hello Everyone,

Have you seen the new pictures of Barry's tbh? Check out the removable bottom and the modified tbh frames.
http://www.beesource.com/eob/althive/birkey/index.htm

I can tell he had lots of fun building this one. Is this the best tbh yet?

Just one drawback though, it will still be at least 3 or more months before bees can occupy it :> )

Dennis
Seeing some neat stuff
 
#57 ·
Hello Everyone,

Just finished building the trough for my Kenya style top bar hive. Will build the frames sometime this week and post some pictures. I will use a T shaped frame with a vertical piece to help reinforce the comb.

Hope everyone is well on their way with a tbh. Spring is just around the corner for most and it's just about time to catch those swarms in the south.

Best Wishes
Dennis
 
#58 ·
A lot of you are going to a lot of trouble to reinforce the comb. While this is probably ok, I'm not sure it's necessary.

It just takes some adjustment in your technique to not overstress the comb by trying to turn it flat ways. As long as you rotate it while it's still hanging down, it's not that hard to handle. It just requires you to think a little differently.

Also you have to think differently when pulling a comb loose. Where a frame can be just pulled out and the burr comb breaks but not the main comb, in a top bar hive you have to cut most of those burrs so they don't tear the main comb apart. Again, this is just an adjustment in technique.

I do hope all of you with your hoops and vertical braces let us know how well they work. I am curious whether they are worth the extra work. Part of the appeal of a TBH for me is less labor. Less boxes to lift, less frames to assemeble less frames to clean, less foundation to put in etc. My top bars are just a 1 by ripped to 3/8" thick with a shallow groove cut down the middle for waxing a starter strip. I like how simple they are to make.
 
#59 ·
I have a few photos of my first TBH located on my yahoo profile: //profiles.yahoo.com/txbeeguy

I used scrap wood so the cost was "free". The cover will be one of those plastic ridged panels (like you see as skylights in some barns or metal shop buildings.

The angled sides are 22 deg off the verticle and the top bars are 19" long (so they will fit in a lang box if needed). It will hold 30 top bars and the 'follower board' in a snug fit (but I still will use the plastic cover for additional protection against the rain and sun).
 
#60 ·
> I do hope all of you with your hoops and vertical braces let us know how well
> they work. I am curious whether they are worth the extra work.

I am curious too! The hoops and braces is just the bane of my perfectionism. Perhaps it is just overkill, only time will tell. Of course for me, all this "extra" work is not really work, it's fun and allows me creativity. Simple is good too.

Chomping at the bit for spring so I can stock it with bees.

Regards,
Barry
 
#61 ·
>I have a few photos of my first TBH located on my yahoo profile: //profiles.yahoo.com/txbeeguy

I looked at it. It's interesting. You have a very narrow bottom. I don't think I've seen one that narrow.

>I used scrap wood so the cost was "free". The cover will be one of those plastic ridged panels (like you see as skylights in some barns or metal shop buildings.

I wonder how the bees will respond to all the light? Maybe your bars are solid without notches? Then they wouldn't get much, but it will still incite them to do more of sealing the cracks between the bars when they see light.

>The angled sides are 22 deg off the verticle and the top bars are 19" long (so they will fit in a lang box if needed). It will hold 30 top bars and the 'follower board' in a snug fit (but I still will use the plastic cover for additional protection against the rain and sun).

All of the early top bar hives I built I went about 22 degrees also. I've given up an decided to just go with perpendicular sides. I haven't had them long enough to know what I think. Partly I wanted interchanability between Langs and the top bars. I agree with making it the same width for that reason.

Be sure you let us know what you love and hate about it after you get to use it.
 
#62 ·
Here's how I started with top bar hives:

Back in the early 70's all the propaganda I'd ever read about hives said anything but a Lanstroth hive was stupid, dangerous, illegal, and backwards.

I'd read how the Greeks had built sloped walled basket hives with top bars on them. Since the hive was round, the bars weren't interchangable.

I was too poor to buy all the hives I wanted, and I was a carpenter with access to lots of small scraps of wood for free. So first I built a super that was the size of a Lang on the bottom (16 1/4") and sloped up. I used 1 x 12s for the sides. I used 2 x 2s for the bars. I put a bevel on them and waxed the bevel by just rubbing beeswax on it. Then I cut notched on the ends so the ends would be flat. I also cut grooves in some and put some foundation in it.

The bees happily worked this super. They drew the foundation a little quicker than the waxed bevel, but they drew them both. I had no extractor so getting comb honey was already the norm.

My next attempt was to make a bottom box that ended up at the standard Lang size on the top but was smaller on the bottom because of the slope. Then I drilled holes between the bars. I didn't go down the middle, as I see people doing now, I made two rows down a third of the way from the sides because I thought it would weaken it less (2 x 2 bars and I was worried about weakening them. lol) I drilled them with all the frames in the box. It looked a lot like txbeeguy's hive only shorter in length. Really narrow on the bottom. I used this for a brood box (it was really too small) and the super I already had on top of it. It worked ok. I just had to keep the brood nest from getting honey bound or they would swarm. I could use the sloped top bar super or a standard super on it. It was an interesting experiment. I pulled a couple of frames and let them move into the top box and retired the brood nest box, but still used the super on occasion.

I built another box the same as the first super and put it on top as a super. This made a kind of flare going up and then the next box was set in. I put 1 bys on the outsides to cover the exposed part of the top bars and put holes in the top bars so they could get into the super. This worked pretty wall also.

Eventually when I got more standard equipment, I moved them into that and just used the boxes for supers.

A year or two later I saw a Kenya hive in the ABJ and was surprised how much it resembled what I had built. At the time mine was vertical (like I was used to thinking) and theirs was horizontal. That was the first time I has seen an alternative to buying hives presented in a bee journal.

Recently I got interested again when I read Satterfield's pages and found out the sides could be straight instead of sloped. And now this site.

I also raised bees in a standard Lang sized box with 1 x 2 bars and no bevel, foundation or anthing else. If you wanted to rob it, you smoked it real heavy and gently set it on it's side and by cutting from the bottom or the top you'd get some honey comb out and free up some space. Sometimes you could get one of the bars off the top so you could see from both sides and cut comb out. It's not as bad as it sounds, but it was only an experiment. Eventually I cut all the brood comb out and put it in frames and robbed all the honey. But if it was the only way I had to raise bees, it would be worth doing.
 
#63 ·
About the light: I decided to not put a notch in my top bars so the light won't be a problem. Also, between the plastic cover and the top bars, can be placed an old blanket if desired - Russian technique. The plastic cover is mainly for protection against rain and general "weathering" of the top bars from the sun and such.
To add a super on top of the hive, I will remove a single top bar and cover that area of the top bars with a sheet of black plastic (fairly thick, not garbage bag variety) with a narrow elongated hole cut in it. As I understand, the bees will not try to build comb in that area due to the flexing plastic sheet but will have access to the lang super on top.
I've read about the "debate" as to whether sloped side are necessary. I thought I'd run my own little "experiment" and use this TBH and also use a standard Lang deep box with my top bars and see which colony tends to attach more brace comb to the sides. Maybe there will be a difference and maybe not.
As you saw, yes it's deep with a screened bottom - I figured it couldn't hurt with varroa mite control and it might just help (a little). Also the added 'air flow' from the screened bottom should help during the summers with our Texas heat. And as you saw, I also have a 'false bottom' board I can put in during winter to block out some of that air flow during the winter. I'll post again later with pros and cons...
 
#64 ·
Hello Everyone,

After looking at all the various designs for tbhs, I thought I would build the plainest one possible. The sides consist of three 1"x6"s about 3feet long. The bottom consists of two 1"x6"s and the top bars are 24" long.
I am considering using them in a non-migratory sideline operation.

Guess what? The slope off vertical is 22 degrees. No kidding. Have we discovered the Golden Ratio for Tbh's? :> )

It is most interesting to see the different desings and implementations of this idea.

Are we having fun yet?
Dennis
 
#65 ·
About the slope off verticle [BWrangler]:
ha! ha! maybe...
However, there certainly wasn't anything "scientific" about my decision. I had actually started off with 30 deg and due to the {scrap} plywood I was using for the sides of my TBH, that much of an angle made the plywood too wide and didn't allow for an opening at the bottom. So I backed it off until the results you see and then I measured the angle and it turned out to be 22 deg off verticle. (So you can see, it certainly wasn't "planned"...just turned out that way). The hinged back door of the hive will make it easy to vacuum debris off the inside of the bottom screen (if necessary) and will allow me to place the temporary "bottom board" in during the winter months.
 
#68 ·
Hello Barry and Everyone,

The "T" shaped frames are not a original idea of mine. I first started thinking about tbhs in the late '70s and sometime since I've read about them. I can't remember where though.

The vertical piece is designed to provide some support for any inadvertant rotation of the comb when the topbars are worked. It reaches almost to the bottom of the hive.

I will run a bead of beeswax down the center of the topbar and down each side of the vertical support. Hopefully the bees will attach the comb to both points and the comb will be stronger and resist breaking off the topbar. I might have to move this hive twice a year and would hate to hit the breaks and dislodge the comb.

In addition I will cut a couple of small communication holes in the drawn comb on each side of the vertical support.

I toyed with the idea of using 2 shorter pieces toward the outside edges of the frame rather than the single center one. I have prepared several topbars this way also.

Best Wishes
Dennis
 
#71 ·
Hello TBH users I like both of these designs recently posted. One question what is the purpose of the solid frame (follower board)?

I have thought of some thing I'm thinking about trying. Tell me what you guys think of useing old ice chest/coolers to some as a TBH. I was thinking about cutting the bottoms out with my skill saw and installing a screen for a bottom board. I was thinking about attaching a thin ledge on both sides to support the frames, plus it would already have a hinged lid.
 
#72 ·
>Hello TBH users I like both of these designs recently posted. One question what is the purpose of the solid frame (follower board)?

With a conventional Lanstroth hive the size of the hive is adjusted by adding or subtracting supers. This way you can start with a small enough area the bees can keep the atmosphere correct for raising brood when there aren't that many bees yet, and then you can increase the size so there is enough room when the population increases and you need lots of honey storage area.

With a top bar hive you do this with a follower board. You can make the cavity larger or smaller by moving the board.

If you keep a small top bar hive you could get by without the follower board, but you have to rob out honey more often so it doesn't get too crowded and still the population may reach a point where they don't all fit inside to cluster at night.

If you run a large top bar hive, you will have better luck using the follower.

>I have thought of some thing I'm thinking about trying. Tell me what you guys think of useing old ice chest/coolers to some as a TBH. I was thinking about cutting the bottoms out with my skill saw and installing a screen for a bottom board. I was thinking about attaching a thin ledge on both sides to support the frames, plus it would already have a hinged lid.

I you have an old cooler around and don't care about ruining it, it should work, but what will the bars hang on? You'd have to put in rails or somthing for the rests and then you've increased the space to the wall under the rest and then the bees will be more likely to attach the combs to the frame rest or run the combs under the rest. If you put a one by all the way down the side for the bar rest it would solve this, but now you've built a wall anyway, so why ruin a good cooler?

I would suppose with a syromfoam one that has some thickness to the foam you might be able to cut a frame rest in the foam, but the styrofoam coolers are pretty fragile.

Advantages: Should be well insulated in the winter.

Disadvantages: You ruin a good cooler.

Unless you just want to get rid of an old cooler, I'd just make it out of scrap wood.
 
#73 ·
Hello Everyone,

>Tell me what you guys think of useing old ice chest/coolers to some as a TBH.

I had the same thoughts and checked out the stock at Walmart. Most of the coolers under $20 were too small. A cooler of the right size was about $50 which is more than it cost to build one from wood.

I had planned to cut a rabbit along the sides of the cooler and insert a wooden frame rest there. It should work quite well.

But it's so easy to build one. I think a very simple and cheap design, even cheaper than mine, could be built along Barry's design if the plywood ends could be scrounged. Pallet lumber could be used for the sides and a simple top bar could suffice. I bet it could be done for less than $10.

I still looking for a very neat scroungable alternative. Anyone have any ideas? I would like to get a sideline size operation up and running using tbh type hives.

Best Wishes
Dennis
 
#74 ·
I had actually thought about using an old cooler too (the styrofoam type) but was faced with how to make it more durable - fiberglasing it came to mind but with all that trouble, quickly came the decision that wood would be easier to work with. I did see on the 'net that some guy in eastern europe (Romania, if memory serves me correctly), made a couple of TBH's out of old, discarded refrigerators (the small european type - more like our small wet bar or office type of refrigerators).
 
#75 ·
One of the nice things about a top bar hive, is you can work with what you have. If you have to buy all new materials or buy something that really isn't made for it, I'm not sure how practical it is.

I'm not sure what's in a typical dumpster at a home job site now, but I would guess you could easily find enough materials for several hives in a typical one. You'd just have to plan for the materials you have.
 
#76 ·
Michael, now I'm really laughing! That's exactly where I DID find my "construction materials"! I used to live 'out in the country' but now they're building houses all around me. So natually, that became a great source of TBH material. I found enough 1x4's to make about 100 top bars (which is what you see in one of my photos). The best part is: they were just going to trash this leftover material; same goes for plywood too. In fact, it's why I said my hive was built for less than twenty bucks. I used a quart of paint which I paid $1 for at Home Depot (on their return shelf) and it was good quality 'exterior' paint! The fact it matches the colour of the top cover was purely accidental! So pretty good sized hives (thirty "frames" or equal to three deeps) can be built for little or nothing.
 
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