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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,142

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    FYI

    As I understand Dadant and Sons now have both 5.1mm and 4.9mm in both medium and deep and in wired and unwired. I still don't see it on their online catalog but you can try calling them.

    The 5.1mm is nice for a first regression. The 4.9mm is nice for the rest.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,074

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    I bought some of their unwired 4.9mm foundation last year, and was very disappointed with it. It was very thin, and buckled in the frames under the weight of the bees, even when crosswired. For the amount of money I spent on it, it was a very unsatisfactory experiance. Just my .02.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama
    Posts
    536

    Post

    I ordered some of the wired 5.1 from the High Springs branch.
    Rob Koss

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Drums, PA, USA
    Posts
    331

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    Interesting. I was going to try to engineer a faster way to put foundations together. Mine sagged as well, but I started using 4 wires and the stopped. But, stringing 4 wires takes time, and more wire, driving costs up. I was going to experiment with #8 screen, and crimp it to the ends, like duraguilt. But depending on the cost, maybe I'll buy 150 sheets of crimped wire 4.9. I think it wil only be a matter of time until 4.9 plastic foundation is introduced.
    Dale Richards<br />Dal-Col Apiaries<br />

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
    Posts
    4,074

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    It didn't seem to make any difference with the number of wires I used, or where they were placed. Most of the early frames were wired with four horizonal wires, it sagged. Then I switched to vertical wires, it sagged. So I went to starter strips, it sagged. Alot of them pulled out from the wedge top bar, and by the time I caught them, the bees had made a mess of them. So I am making my own foundation, much thicker, no sagging, but the drawback is I only get 4 sheets to the pound.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,142

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    In my experience anytime you put foundation in too soon and it gets hot or sets on the hives too long it sags. Wired, not wired, starter strips, whatever. Wires help. Cool weather helps. Less time before the bees draw the wax helps.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,074

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    Most of these were made and put in in early June, it was very mild here, temps in upper 60's-low 70's. This stuff even ripped when I sunk the wires in. Maybe it was a bad box, but at 180 bucks, I won't make that mistake again.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,142

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    If you get the wires too hot it will cut the foundation in half.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
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    4,074

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    I was using an old hand spur inbedder, can't get those too hot (well, maybe if you heat it with a torch LOL). I have the stuff to make an electric embedder, just haven't had the desire to mess with it yet.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama
    Posts
    536

    Post

    I had the same problems last year with the 4.9 unwired foundation, peggjam. I "glued" the foundations into the grooved top bar with beeswax, and tried 2 wires horizontal, 4 wires horizontal, and 2 wires diagonal. Regardless of which configuration was used, there were always some that sagged under the weight of the bees and were useless. And I don't install the foundation into the frames until I'm ready to use them for the reasons MB mentioned.

    It was just too thin.
    Rob Koss

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Troupsburg, NY
    Posts
    4,074

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    &lt;It was just too thin.&gt;

    That was my impression as well, like I said, won't make that mistake again.
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,350

    Post

    It hardly ever sags in my 6-1/4" frames with 3 horizontal wires.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    846

    Post

    we horizontal wired 4000 frames with small cell from dadant with 4 wires (deep frames) and we never had saging problems they were all made in the winter and used in the spring so they did sit for some time. this new vertical wire stuff is really going to speed us up. Nick

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Drums, PA, USA
    Posts
    331

    Post

    Time is always the issue. Your not kidding it will speed things up. I actually am excited about getting started!

    Like I said, I used 4 wires and a wire crimper that made the wires banjo string tight. Them embedded them with the transformer. MB is right, you can make very nice starter strips if you let it hooked up too long!
    Dale Richards<br />Dal-Col Apiaries<br />

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    770

    Post

    I ordered a box of the deep wired small cell foundation from Dadant, but the person I talked to said they don't carry medium wired (or un-wired for that matter) SC. Is he right or does someone out there know the product code? Thanx,
    Triangle Bees

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,142

    Post

    I have not tried to order any, but the word I had was it was available. Perhaps this person just didn't know where to find it either. I can't find any of them except the unwired in the online catalog.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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