small cell observation

[drobbins]

db,
where are you?
sounds like you're right down the road
I'm up around Falls Lake
it sounds like we're trying to do the same SC thing

Dave

[db_land]

I too live near Falls Lake. Sent you a private message with contact info.

[MichaelW]

small cell beeks's (espically MBush)

Would this work? Could you get the fully drawn plastic comb and dip it in wax, then shake some regular, unregressed bees onto it. Would the queen lay in the smaller cells? Do they need room for drones? Or can the entire hive be this wax dipped plastic comb? Have you herd of anyone trying such a thing?

[Phoenix]

Could you get the fully drawn plastic comb and dip it in wax, then shake some regular, unregressed bees onto it.

Yes, Mr. Bush dips his Permacomb and gets a cell size close to 4.95mm if I remember correctly. With this method you would be able to achieve almost instant retrogression.

Would the queen lay in the smaller cells?

As a matter of fact, they seem to preferr smaller cells.

Do they need room for drones?

They will find a way to make drones, most often using burr comb between boxes.

Or can the entire hive be this wax dipped plastic comb?

I'm assuming you just mean the brood chamber, and the answer is yes. No need to wax dip and get smaller cells for honey storage right?

[drobbins]

Another trick you could try, is to use 9 frames of dipped permacomb and 1 frame with a starter strip.
Apparently (I'm a rookie, so I'm quoting others) they draw that starter strip out all drone cells (10% of the brood box)
That would also make it real convienient to kill the drones (to kill varroa) by freezing.

I'd sure like to hear Michael expand a little on this dipping process.

Dave

[Michael Bush]

>Could you get the fully drawn plastic comb and dip it in wax, then shake some regular, unregressed bees onto it.

As Phoenix says, I do it all the time. It works great.

>Would the queen lay in the smaller cells?

As Phoenix says, they prefer them.

>Do they need room for drones?

The PermaComb is a little short and they build the drone comb on the bottoms of the combs.

>Or can the entire hive be this wax dipped plastic comb?

Yes it can.

>Have you herd of anyone trying such a thing?

Me.

>Apparently (I'm a rookie, so I'm quoting others) they draw that starter strip out all drone cells (10% of the brood box)
That would also make it real convienient to kill the drones (to kill varroa) by freezing.

If you find that necessary. I have not found it necessary as the varroa population stays under control without freezing any.

>I'd sure like to hear Michael expand a little on this dipping process.

I've expanded on it many times. Try a search. The short version is that you heat the PermaComb in a 200 degree F oven (use an oven thermometer) and dip it in melted beeswax until it's well coated (not over 212 F wax) and shake off the excess.

[MichaelW]

Thanks, so the process of regresion is just to get the bees to build the smaller cells.
I noticed yesterday my bees starting to build some comb on starter strips during our dearth. I only put the frame in 5 days ago. Impressed so far. It wasn't much but still encourageing seeing I haven't started feeding them yet. I'm trying to do some splits first. If the price would drop on the plastic comb I would get some.

If these drawn plastic bees are instantly regressed, I'm guessing any splits from said colonies should build small cells fairly easily, and could be a good way to get started with small cell. Or is foundationless easy enough?

Also the plastic seems like a good way for someone to do the lacking peer reviewed research that is so often discussed on this board. No complications or buying regressed bees, just shake onto the wax dipped drawn plastic.

[Sundance]

Micheal B........ What do you use for a vessel to dip into?? How do you control the temp of the wax?

[Michael Bush]

>Thanks, so the process of regresion is just to get the bees to build the smaller cells.

The bees raised on smaller cells will more readily build smaller cells. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing, but, luckily, the bees want to build smaller, they just don't quite get there the first try. If they already HAVE small comb then you end up with smaller bees who happily build smaller comb. If you already have smaller bees then they happily build the smaller comb and raise smaller bees.

>If the price would drop on the plastic comb I would get some.

You mean PermaComb? It's not foundation.

>If these drawn plastic bees are instantly regressed, I'm guessing any splits from said colonies should build small cells fairly easily

Yes.

> and could be a good way to get started with small cell.

Yes.

> Or is foundationless easy enough?

Yes.

>Also the plastic seems like a good way for someone to do the lacking peer reviewed research that is so often discussed on this board.

Yes.

>No complications or buying regressed bees, just shake onto the wax dipped drawn plastic.

That's what I think.

>Micheal B........ What do you use for a vessel to dip into??

I don't have a really good one, but I have an electric turkey roaster.

> How do you control the temp of the wax?

The turkey roaster has a double boiler on it, so the temp is never above 212 F. It also has a thermostat on it, so I can set it to about 220 F or so and keep it from boiling the water off too fast. But any double boiler will keep it below 212 F. If you live at 7200 feet (like I used to in Laramie) it will be closer to 199 F [img]smile.gif[/img]