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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,481

    Post

    >How about you guys? This is biological beekeeping. What do your bees do? What do you see?

    In natural built comb, I have not seen a discrenable pattern beyond the "primary" comb and at least once I found one of those with both directions on the same comb.

    >Michael and I have likened it to the Star Trek episode where whenever they walked through a doorway they ended up in the same room.

    Where ever you go, there you are. [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Casper, WY
    Posts
    526

    Post

    Hi Guys,

    Here I go again :&gt))

    I was one of three people Michael Housel initially corresponded with concerning his observations. They sounded interesting so I decided to use Housel positioning in the few, pathetically weak, small cell survivors that had made it through my first experience with regression. Some initial observations with these dinks indicated that Housel positioning might have some effects. But I didn't have anything to compare them against. And I didn't have any experience with natural comb.

    I was astounded that, in less than a month, one of the other people, first involved with Michael, starting making all kinds of claims concerning the effects of Housel positioning. Their Houseled bees were calmer, swarmed less, drew out comb faster, were more productive, etc. And they continue making the same claims today, years after Michael first mentioned his observations.

    When I examined natural comb, I couldn't find any evidence that comb orientation is related to cell bottom patterns. In fact, I found just the opposite.

    And I've found that the patterns we see in the bottom of the cell are an extension of our own perception and have almost nothing to do with how the bees construct comb, which is often more out of sync than our foundation mills :&gt

    The final blow to Housel positioning, for me, came when I unregressed and uh-Houseled a few small cell hives, then compared them to my regressed and Housel small cell hives. There wasn't any difference between these two groups concerning those behaviors accorded to Houseling.

    You can read about in detail at:
    http://bwrangler.madpage.com/bee/shou.htm
    and
    http://bwrangler.madpage.com/bee/sunr.htm

    Now for my rant! Or have I already started :&gt))

    I think Houseling is a typical human phenomina associated with beekeeping. Our desire, as beekeepers, to assist our bees, can produce some very interesting bee management, if it's not based on the bees biology. And we had better know that for ourselves and not just take anyones word on faith.

    I've seen pictures of hives constructed with little gymnasiums made of springs, teeter-toters, etc so the bees could exercise during the winter. And I've seen pictures of hives that had drawers built into them so that cooked chicken could be feed to the bees.

    I don't doubt that Michael found some comb with the arrangement he describes. But it would have been prudent for other biological beekeepers to make a few observations of their own and determine the biological significance of what Michael had seen. Michael actually asked that other beekeeper do this. Instead, some formulating a management plan and touting the advantages even before Michaels observations could be verified.

    It's just all to easy for the human mind to find what it's seeking and ignore everything else.

    I'll bet that beekeeper did feed a cooked chicken to a hive of bees and it did better in spite of him :&gt))

    End of Rant --- Hoping not to offend anyone--- I'v e still got a few Houseled hives myself :&gt)) But they won't be the next time I exchange any frames.

    Happy Beekeeping
    Dennis
    PS. I really enjoy the humor attached to some of these posts. Thinking, if your own beekeeping doesn't make you laugh sometimes, your honey has granulated, fermented and turned into vinegar.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    Michael, I've been in SC for a week, Just got back, wanted to say thanks for information in your reply. I'm going to print it and look it over. I'm really interested in the small cell as another tool in battle against varroa. We've gone to running singles for what we migrate and I would like to try the 11 frame langstroth as it would give us more brood and storage space.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Casper, WY
    Posts
    526

    Post

    Hi Guys,

    I've learned one more thing from Houseling that I thought I would share.

    If you discover something unique concerning the bees, or invent a new piece of beekeeping equipment, don't name it after yourself! If that discovery stands the test of time, you will be acknowledged. But if not, then what are the consequences?

    I've had to toss many of my ideas, as further observations and life experience prove the earlier ones to be lacking in some regard.

    And they are really easy to toss as long as I'm not personally invested in them or find my value defined by them.

    Regards
    Dennis

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Whidbey Island, WA, USA
    Posts
    182

    Post

    demerl51, what do you mean by Houseled and nonHouseled frames? I thought that Housel Positioning, IF IT EXISTS, means that the bees draw out the coomb on one side of the frame different from the other side based on its position to the "center" of the hive. Acknowledging this just means that you don't flip the frames around when you inspect, checkerboard, etc. I thought the actual frames aren't any different. That is, it is a different issue from small cell or eleven frames per hive, etc. You just put them back in the way they were originally drawn without the Las Vegas shuffle, Voodoo whoodoo, and rain dance.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Casper, WY
    Posts
    526

    Post

    Hi OldScout,

    Houseling frames are what the beekeeper does to them rather than what the bees do. If a beekeeper runs 10 frames in a box, five frames, on the left of the center, will be arranged with the upright Y facing outward toward the nearest side.

    The remaining frames, on the right of the center, will be arranged as a mirror image of the first five frames. Their upright Y's will also face outward from the center of the box, but to the opposite side.

    The center frame, with its horizontal Ys , remains imaginary for most. A person could rotate a sheet of foundation 90 degrees and insert it into a frame for horizontal Y's. But I don't know of anyone who has done this. Yet :&gt

    Regards
    Dennis

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Guatemala
    Posts
    244

    Post

    I wonder why Michael Housel has not appeared on stage in this forum. His observations are worth a chance, and I would guess he has a lot of new stuff to share. Come on Mike, where are you?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,481

    Post

    >But I don't know of anyone who has done this. Yet :&gt

    I do it everytime I use foundation. I cut two sheets off to make the center frame.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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