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Thread: Queens question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Post

    It seems to me that the size of a worker cell determines thw size of the worker, but e
    the queen cells are much larger and custom made. So the question is, is the queen limited to her cell size? Therefore, she would still be limited by the normal excluder. Correct?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi,

    The queen size has been enlarged all as shown by work done by Steve Taber. The spacing of different manufacturers of excluders all vary. But the older excluders do have a smaller spacing than todays. I will paste some info below on from Dave Cushmans site from mailed to me on biobee list:


    Hi Clay

    > I haven't found that the small cell bees prefer a smaller sized
    > queen cell cup. Grafting acceptance has been the same for me
    > whether grafting with the same size cups on large or small cell hives
    http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/grafting.html http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cus...llplugbox.html http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cus...asticbits.html

    The above pages discuss wax and plastic cell cups, which both seem to fall
    into large and small types according to period of manufacture.

    The enlargement of cups took place about 25 years ago due to work by Col.
    Sanders (Steve Tabor), he used blown glass cups of all sizes to prove that
    the bees at that time required larger cups than had been previously thought.
    I merely see this as a manifestation of bees being enlarged by large cell
    foundation.

    I am of the opinion that it is no accident that the two sizes have appeared
    and that the smaller (older) plastic cups will be more suitable for small
    celled bees.

    I am now using the wax type shown in cross section on one of the above
    pages.


    Best Regards & 73s... Dave Cushman, G8MZY
    Beekeeping & Bee Breeding Website... http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman


    regards,

    Clay

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    397

    Post

    Hi all,

    Clayton posted some information by Dave Cushman's site:

    > I haven't found that the small cell bees prefer a smaller sized
    > queen cell cup. Grafting acceptance has been the same for me
    > whether grafting with the same size cups on large or small cell hives

    Reply:
    The only problem with the above statement is that he is comparing normal (today's) small cell cups with larger enlarged cell cups, and no one is really trying to use old style natural sized cups anymore.

    Remember that queen cells are made by workers taking normal worker cells and enlarging the sides wider normally. But who is using cell cups with the bottoms of the cups the size of worker cells?

    Comments?

    Regards,

    Dee A. Lusby

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Hi Dee,

    > I haven't found that the small cell bees prefer a smaller sized
    > queen cell cup. Grafting acceptance has been the same for me
    > whether grafting with the same size cups on large or small cell hives

    Reply:
    The only problem with the above statement is that he is comparing normal (today's) small cell cups with larger enlarged cell cups, and no one is really trying to use old style natural sized cups anymore.

    Clay's reply:

    The above is a statment made by Dennis M. when I asked to biobee group. You where out of town on trip to CA at the time. I asked Dave C. what he thought of the above staement(as for long term breeding). Which is what most of my post was that I copyed here. Dennis was talking only in terms of acceptance. I was thinking in terms of the long run in breeding.

    But who is using cell cups with the bottoms of the cups the size of worker cells?

    reply:

    The bees do. And those who use walk away splits letting the bees make and choose queens.

    Clay


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Drums, PA, USA
    Posts
    331

    Post

    The bees do. And those who use walk away splits letting the bees make and choose queens.

    Clay

    But even when they are split, the bees widen out the regular cell, when they make a supercedure cell.

    ------------------
    Dale Richards
    Dal-Col Apiaries
    Drums, PA

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    397

    Post

    Hi all:

    Clayton and Dale have seen good concerning the widening of workercells in natural queenrearing. Now to use the knowledge in queenrearing.

    Ever thought about queen cell cups with bottom of taper the size of the 4.9er worker cell bottom and the size of the enlarged flared cell wall as the upper size of the dowell used for making queen cell cups for the inside dimensions?

    Remember that the bees ALWAYS fill cells be it worker, drone or queen to the same level with royal jelly. But. . .depending upon the diameter for some reason I believe IMPOV that the bees change the composition of the royal jelly, which then coincides with larger or smaller bees produced, be it worker,drone, or in this case queens.

    So something to think about and ponder! Does having the bottom of the queen cell maker (dowel) then make for better royal jelly and thus better queens?

    Regards,

    Dee A. Lusby

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