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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    17

    Post

    Hello Dee, I have contacts to a bee institute in Germany where they testing and breeding bees on 4.9mm cells for some years also.

    Have you studied why your hives survive even if they’re mite infected?
    Do you know exact the reason why this happen or is it a result of many different ways and you find it out by a lucky chance?

    I’m not familiar with test on bees, queens and cells they made on the institute but there a few thinks they discovered why it can work and many times not.

    One reason I heard that small bees producing much less pheromones on the 8th day than bigger bees and the Varroa goes by the smell from that pheromone on the 9th day into the cells. More pheromone, more interest to go into the cells.

    On tests they neutralized the smell totally and no mite entered the cell.

    A second reason the find is, that the Africanized bees breeding only 20 instead 21and most Varroa are not fully developed and can’t reproduce again.
    I’m not a scientist that’s why I say it simple. A combination of both is a possibility why bees live and survive with the mites.

    Do you have blood from Africanized bees in your colonies? What does happen in the long run when you sell queens or colonies to someone else and they breeding with non-Africanized drones? Have you any results?

    The scientists say if breeding queens and they get fertilized with drones like this it will work, but if you’re a beekeeper on a different locality with other drones, it doesn’t work. After a few years the effect is gone and even the bees in 4.9mm cells have a hell of trouble to survive without a treatment.

    Would be interesting to hear your experiences over the years.


  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
    Posts
    971

    Post

    Could you explain about the "explode" part a bit more?

    reply:

    I mean strong colonies of bees that build up quickly. Also that are no long devistated by parasites but have a more harmonious relationship with them (probably much of the reason they are strong). This is from those that have gotten to the third season. I will be in my third season this year so will let you know.

    Clay

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Jameson, MO USA
    Posts
    76

    Post

    Hi again, Michael
    It is said that great minds think alike, so the bunch of us must be really great! I too have been focussing on that concept.

    I have 10 colonies now, and am ordering more queens/packages as the budget allows. I will acquire a fdtn mill sometime this summer, and start milling my own 4.9 out of the clean wax (cappings, etc) that I harvest from my own hives. I have found a place which I believe is at least 5 miles from any pollution source, and will place my breeding colony there.

    As I develop enuf clean foundation (in marked frames for differentiation), I will cycle out the older wax for sale back to Dadant, e.g., until I have completely clean hives, and then can start marketing what Dee calls "Clean Queens", if I understand her correctly. I also sense the need for small cell nucs to bee made available, and the more of us that are doing it, the more popular it will become. This will create an excellent profit potential for those in it early, and an excellent health profit for beekeeping as an occupation in general. I sense that this is the same direction you are thinking.

    We live within 150 miles of each other, and I would love to collaborate with you, and visit your apiary some time this Spring. Perhaps we can bee of assistance to each other in travelling this road together.

    Because of some personal issues, I was forced to pretty much abandon my 10 colonies for the entirety of the last year, looking in on them only once or twice, and doing no manipulating. They all finally got infested with varroa (I was blessed with a 2 year run with no infestation, to get them downsized as well as possible) and on the 70 degree day we had a couple of weeks ago, all seemed to be out in strength. I will have to wait til April to see what the final tale will be.

    I have used zero chemicals/medicines of any kind with my bees, and never will. I am extremely grateful to the kindness of all of you in sharing your knowledge and experience with me to allow this success to occur.

    Joel

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,326

    Post

    >I have 10 colonies now, and am ordering more queens/packages as the budget allows.

    I'm making a trip this spring to pick up some hives with feral survivor stock in them. It's not that much more than having packages shipped this far. If you'd like me to get you a couple of hives and you pick them up here I could do that.

    >I will acquire a fdtn mill sometime this summer, and start milling my own 4.9 out of the clean wax (cappings, etc) that I harvest from my own hives.

    I would love to buy some clean 4.9mm foundation when you start making it. I'm sure there are others who would like to too.

    >We live within 150 miles of each other, and I would love to collaborate with you, and visit your apiary some time this Spring.

    I think that's a wonderful idea.

    >Perhaps we can bee of assistance to each other in travelling this road together.

    I'm sure we can.


  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    397

    Post

    Sol wrote:
    My problem is that there are no feral colonies and only one commercial beekeeper within 200 miles and when he ships his to pollenation, all honey bees disappear, so I have no where to get bees except to have them shipped in. So my conclusion is that I will have to do all my regression with packages and existing colonies. I have nowhere to get 4.9 bees, its that simple.
    But I wanna be selling them someday.

    Reply:
    I believe you are in Oregon. Nearest beekeepers to you on 4.9mm foundation for a few years now are in Eugene Oregon. Check with Philip Smith there (he can point you to others also.).

    Regards,

    Dee A. Lusby

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    397

    Post

    Michael Bush wrote:
    1000 sheets of clean 4.9 foundation would be nice. 50 pounds of clean wax would be nice. I'm not sure how much I'll need in the long run, but in the long run I hope to have my own.

    Reply:
    Michael, I would talk to Jerry Hayes at 1-800-637-7468 and tell him I asked you to call and go over things with him concerning clean wax.

    Dadant has tried to keep very clean wax for the 4.9mm foundation as most using it are looking to go biologically clean/organic. In fact Dadant has been carefully watching all their wax and seperating it, decontaminating it and are one of the best at doing this, having processed and reprocessed beeswax for foundation for many decades now. They have even brought in special wax shipments from Africa over the years.

    Another source would be Revlon Corp as clean beeswax is a must in the makeup industry.

    Sincerely,

    Dee A. Lusby

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,326

    Post

    I didn't know they were making efforts to keep the 4.9mm wax clean. I figured it was just milled on a different mill. This is good to know.

    I just really hate to go through all of this regression and not have a reasonably clean system when I'm done.

    Thanks.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Jameson, MO USA
    Posts
    76

    Smile

    Hi All
    Dee is right, as I had the privilege of going through the Dadant wax facility last year when I attended the midwest Bee conference. They take great pains, and are quite interested in the 4.9 mm foundation concept and potential. They deserve all our support.

    Michael, I would love to take you up on your offer re some small queens/pkgs with some feral genetics. There appear to bee zero feral bees in this part of MO. Please send me an e-mail, and we can discuss this in more detail.
    Thanx, Joel

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    oneonta al.
    Posts
    848

    Big Grin

    I know where several feral bees are at one is hanging on the outside of a house. the woman that lives there said they have been there for 2years,I've never seen any thing like it. it look's like there is at least 6lbs of bees on it.(feb).she also has 4 more in trees,& in the house.down the road I found 2 hives in bird house's they said I can get.sould I have these bees state insp? mark

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,326

    Post

    >should I have these bees state insp?

    What are the laws on inspection in your state? What do they do if they find something? Mites? AFB? EFB? If all they will do is make you treat them, that's one issue, if they make you destroy them, that is another issue. It would be nice to know what could happen if you do and what could happen if you don't because once you call the inspector it's all out of your hands.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Jameson, MO USA
    Posts
    76

    Post

    I never advocate breaking the law, but my Daddy also taught me never to kick a sleeping dog.

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