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Hello, I'm working on it

15K views 36 replies 7 participants last post by  Robert Brenchley 
#1 ·
A note to say welcome Dee, Not that there was anything wrong with your work , Barry! I'll post my plan of action soon. Any update on your progress Barry?

John Sewell
 
#27 ·
I am Brand new at beekeeping and very interested in the idea of downsized comb, but I have a question. If downsizing will cause bees to be able to deal with mites and wild bees make small cells, how come the wild German bees here in Missouri have been wiped out by the mites?
Gene
 
#28 ·
Gene, this is in reply to your post of 12-04-2000, 04:02 PM

Gene, you wrote:

If downsizing will cause bees to be able to deal with mites and wild bees make small cells, how come the wild German bees here in Missouri have been wiped out by the mites?

Reply:

Well, want quantitative evidence do you have that clearly shows the wild German bees in Missouri have been totally wiped out by the mites?

Even in Arizona where I live, the domestic bees and even the feral bees were reported to have been killed off, but yet beekeepers never stopped picking up swarms.

So my reply to you is, there are probably still feral bees left in uninhabited areas or less populated areas of the state still waiting to be located. I HAVE NEVER SEEN IN ANY ONE AREA, TOTAL WIPEOUT OF FERAL BEES.

Those communicating with me when told to call RV parks, firestations, cities, towns and municipalities to put the word out they would pick up free swarms, have always called back saying they had all the work they could do and where therefore, mistaken in their notions the bees had disappeared.

Try putting the word out all next year 2001 and then tell me if you get no swarm calls or cannot find your bees, in a given county or portion of the state.

I think you will find bees are locatable for those willing to retrieve them for agricultural purposes.

Comments??

Best regards to you

Dee
 
#29 ·
Hiya Gene,
John Speaking, welcome to bees! I'm only in year 2, and my advice is get as many colonies as you can even if only for a year or 2, you can always combine them and the gear will be useful. You need many colonies to really see what the books/screens show. They are individuals...

Dee, here in UKgh most swarms are accepted to be from beekeepers. Woodsmen (foresters?) I've quizzed say there were colonies in trees, but not many nowadays. Are the swarms you refer to big? Surely if the feral colonies are surviving on their own then beekeepers shouldn't be shutting up shop? Or are financial forces bigger bloodsuckers than varroamites?

John
 
#30 ·
This post is in response to Johnsewell's post of 12-04-2000, 05:43 PM

Besides welcoming Gene aboard to beekeeping Johnsewell wrote:

Dee, here in UKgh most swarms are accepted to be from beekeepers. Woodsmen (foresters?) I've quizzed say there were colonies in trees, but not many nowadays. Are the swarms you refer to big?

Reply:

Yes, for the most part beekeepers are locating big swarms when the word is put out, but not necessarily to be found in trees. Quite a few beekeepers are finding them in old abandoned buildings, and old vehicles/equipment laying around from past bygone years setting idle that the bees have come into. Other places are in natural crevices and yes, old tree trunks or hanging out in the open. Hanging up under eaves of old houses is more common.

Johnsewell then wrote:

Surely if the feral colonies are surviving on their own then beekeepers shouldn't be shutting up shop? Or are financial forces bigger bloodsuckers than varroamites?

Reply:

Well, John economics does seem to be playing a big part in the process here in the USA and also beekeepers today seem to want the quick easy way of doing things more than in past days.

Few are willing to work a sideline up into a profitable business of beekeeping anymore, especially with all the stories of gloom and doom, rather then saying here to them you can do it, and then show them how. Even after offering to show them how the old ways to keep bees, unless you have a gov union card many do not believe it is possible to keep bees anymore because so many say it can't be done.

What we need is more dialogue that yes, it can be done, here is how you start and do it, now let's get going.

You must believe that all things are possible if you believe in yourself and are willing to put the effort into it. Nothing comes at once in life, even keeping bees has a start in life, a workup period, and then success after you have done your time, through hard work in a realworld scenario.

Keep us posted John on your progress.

Hear you are making foundation now, getting a honey house ready besides lots of equipment to work bees.

Why not explain it here since you will be working on it, so others can see also how to proceed.

Looking forward to your progress reports and I am sure others will also. Keep going and others will too!

Very best regards,

Dee
 
#31 ·
Thanks for those replies on the absence of wild bees. Being a new comer to bee keeping I was just going by what I had been told locally.

I started last year with one hive and have already bought new equipment for two new hives in the spring. (man, are there a lot of nails to drive) I want to keep these hives free of chemicals from the start and plan to use down sizing of cells to do it. I would appreciate input on my thoughts. I will be using 3lb. packages of bees and would like to know:

1. Is one breed better than another for down sizing?
2. Can bees that have already been down sized be purchased?

My plan for each hive is as follows

1. Start with 4 frames of 5.2 foundation
and 6 frames with 4.9 starter strips.
2. After these are filled, add second brood
filled with 4.9 foundation.

Question. Is it very likely that the bees will fill out the second box properly, or am I rushing it.

I just found this website a couple of days ago and I really am thankful to be able to tap into all of the bee knowledge you folks have. If I say or ask anything stupid please forgive me or ignore me or something. I'm just glad to bee here. ha ha

Very sincerely,
Gene
 
#32 ·
This is in reply to Gene Nothaker's post of 12-05-2000, 03:39 PM

Gene wrote:

1. Is one breed better than another for down sizing?

Reply:

Try to find small caucasian breeders. Even the Russian bees being sold for varroa tolerance are a small black causacian strain. Purchasing from a small caucasian breeder your packages would be a whole lot cheaper than buying expensive patented Russian stock.

Further, most bee breeders in the Gulf
Port states are in an already naturally small cell size area by archival files, on the size of their bees, so even bees purchased from there, if on the right cell size, when shook down into packages, would be to the smaller tendancy, even if of the Italian type, as this type too, is originally from latitudes of naturally smaller broodcomb cell size.

The Caucasian bees originally from what was called Eur-Asia territory, just Northeast of
Turkey; and Italian bees from the Mediterranean area of the country of
Italy.

Gene wrote:

2. Can bees that have already been down sized be purchased?

Reply:

Yes. A few commercial breeders has already downsized down onto the 900 series foundation sold by Dadants back around 1991 or so.

A few have already even converted to 4.9 foundation along with us for the past four years or so and their bees are doing quite nicely, i.e. Bolling Bee in Greenville, Ala.

Gene then wrote:

My plan for each hive is as follows:

1. Start with 4 frames of 5.2 foundation
and 6 frames with 4.9 starter strips.
2. After these are filled, add second brood
filled with 4.9 foundation.

Question. Is it very likely that the bees will fill out the second box properly, or am I rushing it?

Reply:

First Gene, forget the 5.2 and go to 4.9 foundation and starter strips. 5.2
will only serve the purpose of being a crutch to keep the package bees sized
larger and if ordered early enough in the spring, the bees will naturally draw smaller foundation, if purchased from a breeder with bees already on smaller combs from the Gulf Port state area.

We have already had Amish hobbists do this, this past year, and it worked well for them up in the Ohio state area.

Then, when the combs are drawn and the brood has emerged for a 60 day period, reshake the starter stip combs down and let the bees redraw out new combs of 4.9 foundation from Dadant.

For advise and help on shaking down/culling badly drawnout combs, you can reference a lot of information from Barry Birkey's posts of retrogression of cell downsizing, he has already done with his bees this past year.

See: http://www.beesource.com/eob/4dot9/index.htm

Lastly, Gene

Never be afraid to ask questions! That is how we all learn! Keep the thoughts and comments coming, then as you learn, and see it works, you can help others........

Very best regards,

Dee
 
#33 ·
Dee,
Thanks so much for the info,it is a great help. I am really having a blast with my bees.
I would appreciate a name and phone number of a breeder who has downsized if you or someone else could come up with it.
If I used small bees should I still start them on strips, or can I start out on full sheets of 4.9 foundation?

Greatfully
Gene
 
#34 ·
This is in reply to Gene Nothaker's post of 12--5-2000, 10:21 PM

Gene wrote:

I would appreciate a name and phone number of a breeder who has downsized if you or someone else could come up with it.

Reply:

Gene I will list Caucasian, as these breeders are harder to locate (Italian breeders can be found readily in both ABJ and Bee Culture & Speedy Bee):

Bolling Bee Co, 334-382-6878
Farris Homan Bee Farms, 601-767-3960
Holder Homan Apiaries, 601-767-3880/3855
Smokey Mountain Bee Co, 423-787-0574

Gene also wrote:


If I used small bees should I still start them on strips, or can I start out on full sheets of 4.9 foundation?

Reply:

Your option, but the hobbyst purchasing packages last year in Ohio (Amish beekeeper)
used full sheets of 4.9 foundation and ended up culling very few frames, but that's not saying it couldn't be different with you.

But, the odds are still in your favor that the majority of the combs will be drawn fairly well and if culled out and replaced 60 days later in the active season, could still be used to restart other colonies on, to give a queen an immediate drawn comb in which to lay eggs, for a faster/stronger start (ketching a swarm maybe? Shaking down a hive currently on big oversized combs?)

Best regards,

Dee
 
#35 ·
Dee,

Thanks so much for all your help. I got started with my hive by an Amish man in our cummunity who has around 50 hives and is still expanding. I told him about the down sizing and have printed off a great deal of the information from this web site for him. He is very interested and wants to get the chemicals out of his hives also. So, by helping me with my 3 little hives you are also helping a very fine young Amish man.
( who of cource does not have a computor)
Now, just a couple more Questions.

1. Should I also use 4.9 foundation in my new supers, or can I use 5.4?

2. Last year I was told to store my supers with a type of chemical cristals to keep moths out, wich I did. Having fought cancer over the last 4 years I don't like using chemicals period. Is this really needed. I don't have a large freezer, but could put a couple of supers at a time in the freezer for a day. I store them in my basement. Any advice?

Greatfully,
Gene
 
#36 ·
Having fought cancer over the last 4 years I don't like using chemicals period. Is this really needed. I don't have a large freezer, but could put a couple of supers at a time in the freezer for a day. I store them in my basement. Any advice?

Greatfully,
Gene[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Gene.
If your winters are cold you can store supers outside and the waxmoth will die. I have read of storing supers on the colony too. Place a sheet of newspaper over stores, with a smallish hole for ventilation. The colony heat is conserved by the honey(what a good plan) and if you don't remember they'll eat the paper away to use the supers in spring. I haven't tried that, but have left supers with drawn comb under a hiveroof outside. No moth.
John
 
#37 ·
Here in my part of Birmingham UK, it's very noticeable that honeybees are only found in the vicinity of beekeepers. Last year, I visited Oxford, where I grew up, and where I remember thriving populations of honeybees back in the 60's. I looked in a large area of unimproved flood plain, with numerous old, hollow willows, which should have been ideal for feral bees. No honeybees, only large numbers of bumblebees. If there are still feral populations here, I'd like to know where, and what the evidence is.

Regards,

Robert Brenchley

RSBrenchley@aol.com
 
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