> I like the idea it just needed some tweaking to make it work. The ones I had did not fit in a 6 5/8 box. That was the summer of 2005 have they been changed since?
Ditto an all of the above.
> I like the idea it just needed some tweaking to make it work. The ones I had did not fit in a 6 5/8 box. That was the summer of 2005 have they been changed since?
Ditto an all of the above.
Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it."
My book: ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
>Now your turn
Boris, look here.
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubb...088;p=1#000005
Jim cannot prove his statement, but I can show that his statement is false.
Ross Round Conversion Kit -$5.50
$5.50 : 8 : 4= $0.17 per Unit
Box of 8 Frames - $22.95.
$22.95 : 8 (frames) : 4 (units) = $0.71 per Unit
Ross Round Ring Box of 64 Rings - $14.95
The Rings become part of the finished round comb package and,
therefore, need to be replaced each year.
$14.95 : 64= $0.23 per ring or $0.46 per Unit
Ross Round Cover Box of 32 Covers - $9.95
$9.95 : 32= $0.31 per cover or $0.62 per Unit (one on top and one on the bottom.)
Foundation $7 per 28 sheets.
$7 : 28 :4 = 0.06 per Unit
Ross Round Label - $9.00
$9.00 :100=$0.09 per Unit
Total cost: $0.17 + $0.71 + $0.46 + $0.62 + $0.06 + $0.09 = $2.11 per 8 Oz. of Comb Honey Unit
Total cost Bee-O-Pac per 4 Oz. Unit is $0.46 or
$0.92 per 8 Oz. of Comb Honey.
So, how about your statement: "Compared to Ross Rounds, they are almost as flagrantly cost-inefficient...?"
Even without one time investment in the RR such as RR Conversion Kit, RR Frames ("literally forever" by Jim) your statement is incorrect.
Boris
[size="1"][ January 25, 2007, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Boris ][/size]
Boris is using prices for the very smallest
quantities one can buy, and one gets much, much
lower prices on consumables when buying them in
more reasonable quantities.
I'll not argue with the claim that the UP FRONT
cost to "get into comb honey" is lower with
the Bee-O-Pac, but it should be obvious that
if anyone thought that the Bee-O-Pacs were
an overall better "value", the serious producers
of comb honey would adopt them en masse, as
everyone would like to lower their costs.
It isn't, so no one has.
I'm not saying that Bee-O-Pac isn't a fine
product, I'm sure it is, if the obvious
bee space violations have been fixed as
reported by Shane. But it is a hobby
beekeeper product, intended to present
the appearance of "convenience". It
appears much less convenient when one
attempts to use it due to its disposable
nature.
What's your connection to the Bee-O-Pac
stuff Boris? Have you have any success
with it when placing more than one super
of Bee-O-Pac on a hive? Have you ever
tried mixing Ross and Bee-O-Pac on the
same hive, and seeing which gets filled
first?
Regardless of strength of hive, I've yet
to see any hive completely finish more than
3 supers of comb honey in one spring.
I keep waiting for an "exceptional" spring,
and waiting, and waiting... [img]smile.gif[/img]
"Boris is using prices for the very smallest
quantities one can buy, and one gets much, much
lower prices on consumables when buying them in
more reasonable quantities."
Jim, your statement is incorrect again.
From one hand, the difference is not so big:
Ross Round Ring Box of 400 Rings - $52.95 or $0.13 per ring or $0.26 per Unit...or
$1.91 per 8 Oz. of Comb Honey Unit.
From other hand – you will get also a better price for Bee-O-Pac system when you will buy Box of 24 frames:
$139.95 : 24(frames) : 16 (units) = 0.36 per 4 Oz. Unit or $0.72 per 8 Oz Comb Honey.
Boris
[size="1"][ January 25, 2007, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Boris ][/size]
Moderator
Is it just me or is sombody FLOGING a dead horse? :confused:
Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
> Ross Round Ring Box of 400 Rings - $52.95 or
> $0.13 per ring or $0.26 per Unit
OK, I see your math: $52.95/400 = 0.13, and yes
it takes 2 rings for each Round, so $0.26 for
rings when bought in quantity 400
But 400 rings is only enough rings to make up
6.25 Ross Round supers, again, a hobbyist
quantity. Can you possibly fathom the idea
that a serious producer of comb honey would buy
in serious quantities, certainly more than would
provision a mere 6 supers per season?
I have no idea what you meant by the following:
...or $1.91 per 8 Oz. of Comb Honey Unit.
No, it would be $0.26 per 8oz Ross Round comb
honey "unit" (section). Where did you pull out
$1.91? (Two rings per section, and if the bees
don't fill the section, the rings can be reused
next time.)
This is getting too tedious for me.
Have fun, use Bee-O-Pac, use whatever you'd like.
Ladies and Gentelmen, we have a winner!
Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
www.myspace.com/dukewilliam
1. "I have no idea what you meant by the following:
...or $1.91 per 8 Oz. of Comb Honey Unit."
Jim, this is my last calculation for you. Boris
Ross Round Conversion Kit -$5.50
$5.50 : 8 (frames): 4 (units) = $0.17 per Unit
Box of 8 Frames - $22.95.
$22.95 : 8 (frames) : 4 (units) = $0.71 per Unit
Ross Round Ring Box of 400 Rings - $52.95 or $0.13 per ring or $0.26 per Unit
The Rings become part of the finished round comb package and,therefore, need to be replaced each year.
Ross Round Cover Box of 32 Covers - $9.95
$9.95 : 32= $0.31 per cover or $0.62 per Unit (one on top and one on the bottom.)
Jim, these is my last calculatiom for you:
Foundation $7 per 28 sheets.
$7 : 28 :4 = 0.06 per Unit
Ross Round Label - $9.00
$9.00 :100=$0.09 per Unit
Total cost: $0.17 + $0.71 + $0.26 + $0.62 + $0.06 + $0.09 = $1.91 per 8 Oz. of Comb Honey Unit
2. "Can you possibly fathom the idea
that a serious producer of comb honey would buy
in serious quantities, certainly more than would
provision a mere 6 supers per season?"
Ross Round Rings Box of 700 Rings - $84.95 or $0.12 per ring or $0.24 per Unit.
More than 1000 rings - apr. $0.11 per ring or $0.22 per Unit.
The difference is not so big.
[size="1"][ January 25, 2007, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Boris ][/size]
I think I understand - Boris has never used
Ross Rounds, and therefore thinks that the
"conversion kit" is required, and is unaware
of the massive discounts offered on "complete
Ross Round supers".
But, have fun, and be sure to update your math
after a few harvests, then you'll have a better
handle on your actual costs.
Someone please explain why spend the extra $$ on RR or bee-o-pac instead of just using foundation and cutting the comb into the desired sizes?
Do the bees buid the comb faster in RR, etc.?
Is the comb from RR, etc. higher quality?
...more eye appeal?
Is RR, etc. less effort, why?
Cutting comb is fine, as long as the comb honey
is sold with minimal handling after being cut,
and is going to be consumed "at once".
It is, in a word, "perishable". It will ooze,
it can slide around in the calmshell container,
it can become very unattractive if handled with
less than "great care".
Ross Rounds, Bee-O-Pac, and Hogg Cassettes all
result in a comb that is attached to the walls
of the container, so there is no ooze, no
sliding, no mess. They can be stacked, packed,
shipped, handled somewhat roughly (this may be
less true of Bee-O-Pac than Ross Rounds or
Hogg Cassettes, as the Bee-O-Pac uses very thin
plastic, where the other two use very heavy
duty stuff that one could make a drinking
cup from), and still "survive" without being
degraded.
> ...more eye appeal?
At point of sale, yes, in general.
> Is RR, etc. less effort
Less mess, certainly. Less effort in all the
steps that come AFTER the beekeeping is done,
and one is now handling food. Certainly much
more sanitary, in that one can honestly state
that human hands have not touched the honey
or comb itself.
There is a popular option called "chunk" honey,
where cut comb is sliced into hunks slightly
narrower than the mouth of a ball jar, slid
into the ball jar, and then the jar is filled
with liquid honey. This may sound disgusting,
but there is a big market for it in some areas.
Clearly, this would require "cut comb".
I can sell all the chunk honey that I can produce or buy from others. It has always been popular in the south, but getting harder to find.
Garry
[Is it just me or is sombody FLOGING a dead horse?]
I think its become a horse's skeleton, and soon to be a pile of calcium powder.
I'm with Ed, dollar for dollar, even when considering the labor, I think cut comb honey is most superior to any packaged comb honey system. Its the only sure way to assure complete cells in the entire package with minimal packing costs. Any incomplete areas can be crushed and strained/spun and recovered (along with the wax).
And I agree with Ed a second time, it doesn't matter what system is best, if you don't have a sales market you're wasting your time regardless what system you use.
When you can set it and forget it like every other honey super and you don't have maintenance it like you do for Ross/Hogg/BOP, its a common sense choice to me. Keep it simple stupid.
-Jeff
There is always more than one way to skin a cat, that's of course if you're into eating cats.
Jim,
1. Ross Round Frames are shorter than wooden extracting frames so you must install a Conversion Kit in every standard Super. This kit contains 4 Adapter Boards, Nails and 2 Super Springs.
2. I will buy Ross Round Complete Comb Super Kit with Foundation, if I will find "the massive discounts offered on complete Ross Round supers"...
How big must be "massive" quantity?
What is the real price in such situation?
Boris
[size="1"][ January 27, 2007, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Boris ][/size]
{Someone please explain why spend the extra $$ on RR or bee-o-pac instead of just using foundation and cutting the comb into the desired sizes?}
Having produced both in reasonably large quantities I see no reason to run any type of section comb honey. It is time consuming and costly to assemble, Bees do not like working in the space provided and don't give you the total comb honey view you get with well drained cut comb in clear plastic containers.
> 1. Ross Round Frames are shorter than wooden
> extracting frames so you must install a
> Conversion Kit....
Naw, you can just cut the super down. It is
a great way to find a productive use for those
supers that have started to suffer from
"corner rot". One needs a table saw, but a
careful person could use a circular saw.
> 2 Super Springs
Shucks, I don't know anyone who pays bee
supply house prices for springs that can
be bought at any craft supply store in
the picture framing section for about $0.02
each in quantity 10.
> I will buy Ross Round Complete Comb Super Kit
> with Foundation, if I will find "the massive
> discounts offered on complete Ross Round
> supers"...
Contact Lloyd Spear. He can tell you when his
next sale will be. Lloyd often sets up a table
at various bee meetings, and offers the same
deal himself. He has attended the Tri-County
meeting in Wooster OH on the 1st Saturday in
March, perhaps he will again.
> How big must be "massive" quantity?
Quantity 1. The discount is massive, the
quantity need not be.
"Can you possibly fathom the idea
that a serious producer of comb honey would buy
in serious quantities..."
"The discount is massive, the quantity need not be." ... It is not funny any more.
Jim, because you again did not answer for my direct question (What is the real price in such situation?) - the price discussion with you is over.
Next time please do not disinform forum members with your statements like this: "Compared to Ross Rounds, they are almost as flagrantly cost-inefficient..."
Boris
[size="1"][ January 28, 2007, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Boris ][/size]
I'll try one last time Boris, and then I have
to go lay on a beach in the Bahamas for a while,
and will not be able to toy with you further.
Read this:
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubb...088;p=1#000007
And call Shane at Betterbee, as Lloyd suggests,
and ask HIM what sort of waste you are going to
have with Bee-O-Pac. If a guy who SELLS Bee-O-Pac
says "65%" saleable sections, then I will continue
to take the position that it is your lack of
experience that is causing you to unwittingly
misinform the forum members.
So, go re-do your math, and don't argue with
me, argue with a guy who sells the Bee-O-Pac
stuff.
Jim,
Betterbee did not confirm your statement.
Boris
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