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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Temecula, CA
    Posts
    147

    Post

    There was a posting a while back regarding a frame nailing jig. I've been meaning to post a couple of pictures of the simple jig that I use. It is wicked simple to make and works pretty slick.
    http://www.merrilland.net/honeyhouse3.htm

    Kurt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post

    I know what I am making this winter.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rochester, Washington, USA
    Posts
    973

    Big Grin

    YEP-ER. Good project. Looks like I might even be able to construt it. SIMPLE-----

    ------------------
    'WHEN WE CLOSE OUR EYES WE ALL LOOK THE SAME' GWPW 03

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rochester, Washington, USA
    Posts
    973

    Cool

    Kamerrill: THANK YOU, Just got done contructing your design. Not quit as nice as yours but functionialy. Took me 'bout 1hr, being an amature woodworker. Checked it out by using some assembled frames it it appears to be just the ticket. Alot easier to make than the one in the plans section.
    Magnet-man: If I can do it anyone can.

    ------------------
    'WHEN WE CLOSE OUR EYES WE ALL LOOK THE SAME' GWPW 03

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    EASLEY S.C. USA
    Posts
    113
    Very nice jig . Looks like it would work nice.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    943

    Post

    This one looks like it would work a lot better than the one I bought from Kelleys several years ago. It's a spring loaded contraption that's pretty much the same as the frame jig listed in the plans section on this website. I hate to say anything bad about Kelley's because I've had nothing but good dealings with them, but it did not work well. After about forty or fifty frames, the nails pulled out and it fell apart. I replaced the nails with screws and glue and it works ok now, but it's more complicated than it needs to be. This design looks much simpler and more durable. Thanks for sharing it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    297

    Post

    Dave Cushman suggests that frames should not be nailed through the top bar:
    http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/frameassy.html

    "Another thing that is often done wrong is that a nail is placed vertically downwards into the side bar. This is disastrous as the nail head impedes the scraping action of the hive tool when cleaning burr and brace comb from the top surface of the bar. In addition the nail grip in the end grain is not enough to handle the weight."

    Any other views on this?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Post

    I use an air stapler and (What else?) staples. I put 1 in the top bar vertically and another through the side bar into the top bar from the end. I also glue them with gorilla glue. I made the frame jig on this site and love it. Air tools are cheap at Harborfreight.com.

    dickm

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,136

    Post

    >"Another thing that is often done wrong is that a nail is placed vertically downwards into the side bar. This is disastrous as the nail head impedes the scraping action of the hive tool when cleaning burr and brace comb from the top surface of the bar. In addition the nail grip in the end grain is not enough to handle the weight."

    >Any other views on this?

    ANYWHERE you put the nail it will get in the way of scraping, so that seems irelevant. But the nail straight down will not hold the frame together. However it does PULL the frame together and that's what I'm after when I do it. I glue the frames together and use the nails (staples?) through the top to pull it down tight to the glue. I don't expect a nail in "pull" position to ever hold much. Only a nail in "shear" position can take much weight.

    One reason I prefer one nail through the top bar is so I can scrape the spacers, which need it more than any other part of the frame. And so I can plane them down to 1 1/4" wide later if I want to.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    943

    Post

    Vertical nails through top bar are not sufficient by themselves -- but I wouldn't call them "disastrous" either. But the top bars will separate from the rest of the frame when prying them out of supers. You have to also put in a horizontal nail up under the top bar "ear" throught the side bar into the bottom part of the top bar.

    Although I've never tried it, I don't think putting a horizontal nail through the sidebar "ear" into the top bar wouldn't work very well as I would think the sidebar ear would rip out when prying up frames.

    Although I suppose burr comb could be anywhere, I have seen very little where the vertical nails in the top bars are. Most of it is on the top bars toward the center of the frames. Still I don't think those nails are a problem.

    Also, I'm not sure why you would have to remove the bottom bars to put in new foundation. It's easier to just clean between them with a hive tool and then the new foundation slips right in.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Louisa VA, USA
    Posts
    28

    Post

    How does everyone attach the bottom bar? I have the dadant grooved bottom bars, and I have been nailing them on using a brad nailer, through the sides of the sidebars, into the bottom bars. Is this OK? It seems to have a VERY strong hold this way. I glue everything before I assemble them as well.

    Chris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,136

    Post

    >How does everyone attach the bottom bar? I have the dadant grooved bottom bars, and I have been nailing them on using a brad nailer, through the sides of the sidebars, into the bottom bars. Is this OK?

    I've never tried it. Doesn't it split the wood a lot? I just nail straight in since the bottom bar really doesn't hold much weight anyway. Of course if they get burred or propolized down to something they sometimes pull out, but I'm depending on the glue to handle that.

    >It seems to have a VERY strong hold this way. I glue everything before I assemble them as well.

    I always trust the glue more than the nails.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Louisa VA, USA
    Posts
    28

    Post

    It does sometimes split a little on one side of the groove or the other (of the bottom bar - never the side bars), but rarely on both sides of the groove. If it does split, I pack the end of the bottom bar that split slightly with glue, and am pretty sure that will hold it together well.

    Chris

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Danbury,Ct. USA
    Posts
    1,966

    Post

    Has anyone mentioned soaking the end bars in water to prevent splitting. It's helpful.
    Gorilla (and similar) glues love water. These are great glues. If you glue with them, the truth probably is that the nails only have to hold things together until the glue dries. Ho hum....70 more frames to go. Why am I sitting at the computer?

    Dickm

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    846

    Post

    we just bought a frame jig from walter kelly we have about 3000 frames to do so we will see how see holds up. have any of you used the wirer from kelly? we got one of those to. Nick

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    943

    Post

    If you mean the spool holder, yes it works very well and has saved many tangled messes I'm sure.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,136

    Post

    >we just bought a frame jig from walter kelly we have about 3000 frames to do so we will see how see holds up. have any of you used the wirer from kelly? we got one of those to.

    I assume that's a frame nailing jig? I bought one from them and have never regretted it. I also got the wire embedder, the spool holder and an embedding board. I added some feet to the embedder but I like them all. I did get the embedding board from Brushy Mt because it would do more sizes of frames. All of these tools make it easier to build and wire frames.


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    846

    Post

    what do you guys use the embeding board for. We bought one but could not figure out a good way to use it so it just sits there. Nick

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    943

    Post

    The embedding board gives you a flat surface for the foundation to rest against when you embed the wires. The top and bottom bars rest in grooves. It also holds the frame fairly tight in a convenient position which makes it easier to install the wire and get it pulled tight prior to embedding.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    san antonio.texas USA
    Posts
    488

    Post

    I agree with dickm. I use a stapler from harbor freight. A good investment. I prefer plastic foundation so I haven't wired a frame in awhile. I use tite bond II glue which seems to stand up well. Not as good as gorilla glue, but I don't have to wet the wood and it is less expensive. I staple the top of the top bar. It helps hold parts tight while the glue dries. I have no problems scraping the top bar.

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