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  1. #1
    dtwilliamson Guest

    Post

    I haven't used the Bee-O-Pac and have read some reviews on a previous post. My question is: If you used the Bee-O-Pac would you use it again? And why or why not?

    Thanks,

    Dan

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Post

    You bet I will use them again. The way the bees worked them this year, I'll be using the same ones for years to come.

    It could be my fault that they did not touch the BOP's, I don't know. I thought I was doing everything right, but overcrowding the hive just made it swarm. I will try again next year.

  3. #3
    jfischer Guest

    Post

    The jury is still out on what the bees
    think about Bee-O-Pacs, but as
    I said in a prior post on this subject,
    even if the bees can be convinced to make
    decent comb in the Bee-O-Pacs, they are
    very very expensive as compared to the
    well-proven Ross Rounds.

    While Bee-O-Pac might appear cheaper to
    a first-year user, a glance at the costs
    in subsequent seasons reveals it as a
    poor investment. In fact, there is no
    "investment" at all with Bee-O-Pac, as
    the entire Bee-O-Pac product is either
    consumed or wasted each year.

    I know of no large-scale producer of
    comb honey who has any plans to switch
    from Ross Rounds to any of the "new
    alternatives", or even adopt them in
    addition to existing Ross Round capacity.



  4. #4
    gfcg731 Guest

    Post

    I tried them, and I like them, but I had problems related to my incompetence and timing, not the bees.

    My Bee-O-Pac's were put on a little late because they arrived a little late, and consequently the bees filled the middles wonderfully, but the outsides were only have done, then the honey flow quit.

    I sell a few at farmer's markerts for $2.50 but I take a lot of questions like, "What's this?" and "What do I do with this?"

    Try them again next year? You bet! Try and do a better job? Absolutely!


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,113

    Post

    >While Bee-O-Pac might appear cheaper to
    a first-year user, a glance at the costs
    in subsequent seasons reveals it as a
    poor investment. In fact, there is no
    "investment" at all with Bee-O-Pac

    So is it a "bad investment" or "no investment"? I thought the main appeal was that there was no investment and the second was a smaller size package of comb honey.

  6. #6
    jfischer Guest

    Post

    > So is it a "bad investment" or "no investment"?

    The "bad investment" IS "no investment". The costs
    associated with Bee-O-Pac in the 2nd year are just as
    high as in the first, as there is no Bee-O-Pac hardware
    that can be re-used.

    In the 2nd year, one need only "buy" rings and foundation
    for Ross Rounds, and one need only use covers on sections
    that one intends to sell, so one makes more profit on one's
    comb honey. In the 2nd year with Bee-O-Pac, one's costs are
    exactly as high as in the 1st year.

    > I thought the main appeal was that there was no investment

    See above. This is, to me, a drawback, not a point that would
    "appeal" to anyone who wants to make a profit.

    > and the second was a smaller size package of comb honey.

    I've never seen or heard of any demand for smaller sections.
    As proof, has anyone who sells chunk honey been asked to sell
    anyone "half as much"? I honestly don't know about this issue,
    as all my rounds are spoken for before they are even harvested
    every year.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    31

    Post

    I have had good results BUT some of the containers were finished dome shaped causing the opposite one to be concave, so next year I will try dividers, as with the traditional sections.

    ------------------
    Richie

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Carnation, WA, USA
    Posts
    120

    Post

    I got three Bee-o-Pacs partially drawn with comb, no honey. Next year I'll put then back on and see how it goes.

    Mark

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7

    Post

    Start up cost and potential profit for the Bee O Pac and two other methods. These numbers are from a catalog that sells beekeeping supplies.

    Bee O Pac #1 Cut Comb
    Frames 49.95 49.95 25.90
    Containers 0 17.00 16.20
    Labels 27.95 9.00 8.40
    Comb Cutter 0 0 24.95

    Total/Cost/1season 77.90 75.95 75.45

    Number/Containers 128 32 60
    Container size oz 4-5 8 8
    Cost/container 0.61 2.37 3.99
    Adjusted for size 0.89 2.37 1.26

    Sugested retail 3.00 3.99 3.99

    Total Potential 306.10 51.73 163.95


    Additional seasons

    Frames/Foundation 49.95 7.00 7.00
    Containers 0 30.00 16.20
    Labels 27.95 9.00 8.40

    Cost/Season 77.90 46.00 31.60

    Number containers 128 32 60
    Container size 4-5 8 8
    Cost/container 0.39 1.16 0.53
    Adjusted for size 0.57 1.16 0.53

    Suggested Retail 3.00 3.99 3.99

    Total profit 306.10 81.68 207.8

    The last thing to consider is that the Bee O Pac has less labor involved in setup and harvest.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Belding, MI
    Posts
    67

    Post

    You are not taking into consideration the total loss of investment when the bees draw out the bee o pacs badly.

    Michael Grodeman

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    844

    Big Grin

    ok guys we used them this year and we were very pleased some were drawn out in a concave shape others were in a blown out shape but the small ones all were 4oz so its good with me we got 3.50 a section and were sold out in three weeks we have and order of 400 next year ok guys heres out look on cost

    B-O-P: one box is 49.95 plus a 7.00 box to put it in cost= about 57.00
    now say you get onehundred good sections @3.50=$350so the profit is $293.00 this is the cost you will have year after year with out the box so

    now with ross rounds the kit is 49.95 that is with foundation then you have to buy covers which is a box of 32 is 8.50 so you need $17 worth of covers total cost=$67
    the gain is 32 sections at shall we go $5 a piece= $170
    profit=170-67= $103 for the first year ok here is a list of the next three years because as jfischer says you have to look at the following costs

    first year saee above for how i got to it
    bop= 293 see above
    RR=103 see above

    next year
    b-o-p= 300 ( no super charge)
    RR=the cost is 67 gross is 170=profit is 103

    third year see the 2nd

    there it is the cost on the RR is the rings which are 13+$17(lids)+$3(foundation) also i figured on a full 32 sections in a RR drawn out but only figured 100 out of the posible 128 now why do people keep saying you will make more on a RR? you can say that the bees will draw it out faster thus geting two supers to every one bop ok so lets times teh 2nd year total by two = 206 still 94 dollars under the bee o pac so what did i miss lol yall probably did not even make it throught this borin post ok regards Nick P.S. tell me if i screwed up and why the RR is so much better

    [This message has been edited by swarm_trapper (edited October 18, 2004).]

    [This message has been edited by swarm_trapper (edited October 18, 2004).]

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7

    Post

    The Bee O Pac was designed to ease the work load for the beekeeper but I believe that many beekeepers who tried the bee o pac thought that just because they used them they took for granted that they would have comb honey sections. The conditions for comb honey still prevailed with the Bee O Pacs as it would with the Ross Rounds and the cut comb sections. The bees need to be strong/healthy, not wanting to swarm and a good strong honey flow.

    The local university tried the bee o pacs and they were able to get one super and the second 3/4 filled plus a box of drawn out comb. The way they did it was to start the bees on a drawn out super when just about full they inserted the bee o pacs between the brood chamber and the almost filled super. This caused the bees to travel across the bee o pac super. When the top super was filled they removed it leaving only the bee o pac super. This removed the shock the bees would have had if the super went on right away. From my experience the bees avoided the plastic and became honey bound in the brood chamber when it went on straight away. I fixed the problem but lost time. The second bee o pac super was introduced the same way. The other thing the university tried was that only 7 frames were put together leaving the last frame as two halves. They put these last two halves on the out side facing inward. The bees finished those outside frames as nicly as the ones within the center.

    I just finished working a local fair where all the local beekeepers share the same table. The bee o pacs were sold at $4.00 and the cut comb sections were sold at $5.50. At the end of the day the Bee O Pacs out sold the 1lb sections by a little. Plus I need to add that the cut comb sections were very nice with very good presentation. So if you do the math I was getting $16.00/lb where the cut sections were getting $5.50/lb.

    I do not think the bee o pac will out run the demand for the larger comb honey section but I see a different/new market for the bee o pacs and I base this comment on the many reasons people gave at the fair.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Wayne, NJ USA
    Posts
    381

    Post

    Andrew,

    Are you numbers in US or CDN dollars?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7

    Post

    Canadian dollars

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Utica, NY, USA
    Posts
    50

    Sad

    I have been bothered by misleading information on the costs/profits of BP compared to Ross Rounds, principally as set forth by Swarm_Trapper and Sperling. Lets say that those comparisons were due to misunderstandings, but we also need to keep in mind that Sperling is an owner or otherwise connected with BP.

    The problem with the Swarm_Trapper information is that he was comparing profits from just 32 Ross Rounds, and 100 BP's! Doesn't make sense.

    Based on Betterbee's 2004 catalog, a BP setup costs $50. Swarm_Trapper said to figure on 100 good sections, so that is $.50 each. If they sell for $4, that is a profit of $3.50 or $350. That is each and every year...except that it is not likely that one would get 100 good sections. But that is another story.

    Now, for Ross Rounds the yearly cost for an entire super (of 32) is:
    Foundation $1.84 ($.23 a sheet)
    Rings 6.40
    Covers 11.76 (For the 28 saleable)
    Total 20.00
    Assume 28 first quality sections, which is what I average. Based on the $20.00, the cost is (20.00/28) or $.71 each. If we sell 100 for $5, that is $500. The cost of those 100 is $71 (100 times $.71). Profit is $429, compared to a best case of $350 for BP!

    What is more, the $5 for Ross Rounds is kind of low and the $4 for BP is kind of high!

    Longer term, BP suffers from the same two problems that Hogg had. (1) Who is going to want to eat comb honey out of a plastic tray? (2) Bad sections cannot be returned for finishing, but have to be discarded.

    With perhaps rare exceptions, I think that the yield on a BP super is going to be a lot closer to 60-65 than to 100. In 2004 hundreds of beekeepers gave up $50 (or more) each to try something new...that had not even been tested by the beekeeping suppliers selling them. Notice that the true quality dealers in the US (Dadant, Brushy Mountain, Mann Lake, and Kelley) did not offer them. Unlike others, these guys will not take beekeepers' money on unproven products.

    Enough of my rant.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    2

    Post

    In response to " OldDrone" I would like to make a comment to his ranting on about the cost of the BP. I in the past have used Ross Rounds and found them to say the least "a waste of time". The retail sales were just not there. I tried the BP's this year and at first were a bit slow, but towards the end of the season I was amazed at what the bees had done. The " OldDrone's" math are wrong and he seems to be confused between apples and oranges! I have been able to now wholesale the Bee-O-Pac, and have more orders for this new product than I can fill. It seems to me that people do like eating out of high grade plastic untouched by hand, and this product has caught the eye of many types of people.
    What I like about this product is that it is simple, easy to harvest and easier to sell!
    When doing my math, it seems that my wholesale price has exceeded the retail price for Ross Rounds and cut comb.
    I'm looking forward to next season when I can do more Bee-O-Pac's and fill the orders that I had to turn down. You guys need to take your noses out of the beehives, and take a closer look at who is buying what!
    As a woman, I wonder if my opinion is being heard in this "Old Boy's Club" ...

    P.S. I also don't play golf

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,881

    Post

    >As a woman, I wonder if my opinion is being heard in this "Old Boy's Club" ...

    At least give us "Old Boys" a chance to listen. With that statement, you already insulted us on your very first post, therefore making me, for one, leary of you to begin with. There are several women on the board who post regularly, and therefore at least someone other than us "inconsiderate male chauvanist pigs" are listening.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Utica, NY, USA
    Posts
    50

    Post

    Not only does Annie insult us, but I notice the location is from Ontario and since her experience is so different from that shared by most of those who post...does she have something akin to an ownership interest in the company?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,881

    Post

    I see that Bee-O-Pac frames can be interspersed with extracting frames. Did anyone try this? Might be a good way to avoid un-finished sections. The extracting combs will draw the bees into the supers, and as they are drawing cappings wax anyway they will fill the bee-o-pacs?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    844

    Post

    old drone i was compareing one super to anouther super we also did not sell the sections for 4.00 we sold them for 3.50 or 2.45 wholesale and we couldnt supply them fast enough we got an order for about 400 now next year already

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