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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Question

    ok guys im fixing to order my hives and i was wondering what do yall think about the Pierco 1 peice frame and foundation , (all plastic) i want to know also do they bend when taking out of the hive and is wood frames better with plastic foundation or wax foundation , just looking to see what you think before i order , yall got the experience!!!!! aw and what about the new support pins they have instead of wire for wax foundations are they as good as wire... well that is enough questions lol... all advise is appreciated !

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Post

    And if you like the Pierco foundations , what color if better white are black ?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle, Washington State
    Posts
    4,398

    Post

    Hey there!

    You and I must think the same. I just posted a simular post either in the beekeeping 101 or general beekeeping forum. Check it out. You might need to look a little for it, but it is there.

    I am going to go with all Pierco frames next year because I do not have time to put them together and when I talked to some commercial beekeepers, they said that "everyone" is using plastic.

    I bought some for my nuc the other day and will start using them next year. A lot of people say that they like the black ones and that the bees tend to take to the black ones quicker.

    They are coated with wax and I think I will also spray them with sugar syrup too.

    Hope this helps.

  4. #4

    Wink

    Hi there. I use wood frames with black pierco foundation. The balck seems to get drawn out better than the white that we tried this year. I was told that some of the plastic frames are a little bit smaller than the wood ones which leads to more burr comb which can be a hassle when trying to minipulate the hive. So I have been staying away from plastic frames.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post

    I have used the Pierco frames and I do not like them for the following reasons. 1) They flex. 2) They don’t work well with my McCord frame grip. 3) The bees take to them slowly and they may build comb away from the plastic foundation. 4) If you try to put 10 frames into a hive it can be a tight fit. 5) If you mix plastic and wax foundation frames they weigh different amount so you must match opposite frames when extracting.

    You might think plastic foundation will be immune to wax moths, but trust me it isn’t. Spend some time and construct a frame making, wax foundation and wiring jigs. Once you have these jigs made it will speed making frames.

    Order frames in quantity of 100. You will use that many by the end of the second year. Bees are addictive!

    So much for my 2 cents!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Post

    have yall tryed the support clips for the wood frames and wax foundations, or do you just use a wiring jig and run wire, if you have tryed the support clips, how did they work ?

  7. #7

    Post

    The support clips that you are talking about are more for foundation like duragilt that has a thin layer of plastic in the middle that gives the foundation some support. The Crimp wired foundation you have to wire the frames up. Most of my equipment has crimp wired foundation in it but I switched to the pierco this year and love it. It is alot faster. That and I really don't like putting all those eyelets in the frames. I plan on putting together 2000-3000 deep frames this fall. That would be 16000 - 24000 eylets.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post

    I have not used the end clips. As for using eyelets I do and I don’t use them. I only use them when my 10 year old needs money. I pay him 1 ½ cent per eyelet. I do use an electric Embedder similar to what Walter T Kelly sells for a small fortune. Went to a thrift store and made it for $1.95!

    As for inserting eyelets the worst part is picking them up one at a time. When I first started work the company I worked for had an eyelet style stapler made by Bates Manufacturing. You just filled the reserve with loose eyelets and it fed them into the press. This is what they look like: http://debarth-fics.com/images/batesEyeletter.jpg
    If I could find one cheap enough I would modify it to do frames.

    As for making 2,000 to 3,000 frames, what else are you going to do this winter?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Post

    ok thank guys,looks like im going to go with wooden frames and black pierco foundations , sounds like thats the ticket , thank again!! any more info on frames and foundations is appreciated.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Post

    chef Isaac, i found that post you wrote and looks like alot on your post like the black pierco foundations too.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Post

    Do yall use the black pierco foundation for brood and honey supers ????????? (the guys that use the black)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Neodesha, Ks
    Posts
    623

    Post

    Magnet Man, Tell us how you made your electric embedder.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Neodesha, Ks
    Posts
    623

    Post

    Magnet Man, Tell us how you made your electric embedder.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post

    Pictures are worth a thousand words. I won't get a chance to take them for a day or two. But I will give details of what you want to look for at the thrift store.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Lincolnton Ga. USA.
    Posts
    1,725

    Post

    has anyone tried the end clips and if so how good do they work, i was just wondering because they seem faster and easier on pierco foundations than running wire on wax foundation.

  16. #16

    Post

    Hi there. I use black for brood chambers and honey supers. You don't need clips for Pierco it is a really heavy plastic.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    457

    Post

    Hey Russ,

    I have a booklet published by University Of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign written by Elbert R. Jaycox published in 1976 titled "Beekeeping in the Midwest". It has diagrams of an embedder and embedding board. It says "The embedder heats the wire by briefly short-circuiting a 12 volt electrical current. ... The electrical embedder consists of a transformer, used to reduce house current to 12 volts, whose output wires are connected to copper contacts at either end of a 3/4-inch-square piece of wood. There is only one critical dimension in making such an embedder. The copper contacts must be spaced so that their centers are 6 inches part for full depth frames and approximately 2 inches apart for shallow frames. These contacts are pressed against the end portions of the wire that cross one end bar at right angles to it. All the wire in the frame is heated at once when electrical contact is made."

    It is a nice little booklet. Well worth the 4 bucks I paid for it.

    Pugs

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    tulsa, ok usa
    Posts
    2,264

    Post

    This is what an electric embedder looks like. http://www.dadant.com/catalog/produc...roducts_id=169 Yes they want $24 for it and $33 for the transformer!

    My embedder looks very similar with some modifications. Here are the instructions on how to make one.

    1) Go to the thrift store and buy a one of the many external power supplies to old computers or large printers. You are looking for one that has a minimum 2 amp rating. Small wall warts will not work. You are looking for something heavy! Heavy means a big transformer inside which means more amperage. These units are usually a black box with two power cords coming out of them. One to the wall and the other to the computer or printer. These power supplies usually have a fuse inside so you will have to break them open to bypass the fuse. If you cann’t find one at the thrift store, visit http://www.jameco.com . They have suitable power transforms for around $15.

    2) Next purchase a large can of coffee. You will need the lid. Take the lid and cut 7 1” by 2.5” rectangles. Now bend 5 of them to look like the letter L.

    3) Staple or nail the 5 L shaped strips to the bottom of a top bar. One on each end and the other 3 evenly spaced in between. L number 1 and 5 are on the ends and 2, 3, and 4 are in the middle of the top bar.

    4) Make a crude switch out of the other two pieces of metal on top of the bar. Attach one strip flat. Attach the second strip so when it lays flat it will contact the first strip. Bend the second strip up so there is no contact. Press this strip down with your index finger when you want to close the circuit.

    5) Run a wire from L 1 to one part of the switch. Attach the other part of the switch to the transformer and finally attach L 5 to the transformer.

    Now this is how you use it.

    Place your pre-wired frame with foundation on top of a board that fits inside of the frame. This board will support the foundations when you press on it. The foundation lays flat against the board with the wire above it. Now take your embedder and press the wire down against the foundation with the 5 Ls. Close the switch. You will feel a slight vibration and may hear a hum. Let go of the switch after 1 second. Let the wire and wax cool 2 seconds and remove your embedder. Go to the next wire and so on.

    You will need to experiment with technique. I usually do a series of short quarter second pulses.

    It won’t look pretty but it works


    [This message has been edited by magnet-man (edited August 22, 2004).]

  19. #19
    dtwilliamson Guest

    Post

    Everyone has their own opinions as you will see over and over again on this site.

    Personally I like the 1-piece Pierco... My bees draw it out like champs. Never had any problem... I prefer the black. The bees seemed to draw it quicker and I can see the eggs easier.

    As far as frames for my honey supers. I have only used Ritecell (Mann Lake) and love them....

    I will never buy another wooden frame.....I would rather spend my time doing other bee related projects than building frames when you don't need too.

    Dan

    [This message has been edited by dtwilliamson (edited August 23, 2004).]

    [This message has been edited by dtwilliamson (edited August 23, 2004).]

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,120

    Post

    Since I'm into natural sized cell for Varroa control and general health of my bees, I mostly use foundationless frames. I either cut a "V" on the bottom of an ungrooved top bar, or I add a piece of wood to it for a comb guide (See Lanstroth's Hive and the Honey Bee available as a reprint from www.amazon.com and I'm sure others).

    Another method I use is a starter strip, but I admit I prefer the foundationless.

    Some people really believe in the three "W"s.

    Wood Wire and Wax.

    The bees are certainly more willing and enthusiastic about drawing wax than plastic and more enthusiastic about drawing thei own come without any foundation than they are about wax foundation.

    I also use a lot of wax coated PermaComb.

    If I wasn't doing small cell, I'd do all PermaComb. Fully drawn plastic comb. The wax moths can't touch it, and I don't believe the SHB would do well in it. I would love to hear from anyone using it in SHB country.

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