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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    You could also just use deep frames in a Dadant deep box and let the bees buld comb on the bottom bars down as far as they want.

    I would also be curious if there is somewhere in Mexico to get them.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    San Mateo, CA
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    Thank you Brother Adam for looking out for me, and protecting me from the scofflaws on this message board who have used up the whole nationwide supply of Dadant frames..... I checked my shop today and I have a partial box of deep frames and foundation to match still left. This should last me at least a year or two. Could you also help me find the flatbed trailer I am looking for on which to permanently mount all of my Jumbo hives ?

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
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    5,159

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    You forgot to say AMEN...

  4. #44
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    I searched the web for Mexican suppliers and so far have struck out.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
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    971

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    Ok guys,

    I built a bunch of dadant end bars today and constructed 8 frames. Till it dawned on me I have a few questions. What is the length from the top of the end bar to the bottom of the hoffman spacing taper? Also how many wires 5 or 6? I costed out the end bars using 2x6 stock and come up with around .04 cents per end bar. I think thats cheap enough.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >I built a bunch of dadant end bars today and constructed 8 frames. Till it dawned on me I have a few questions. What is the length from the top of the end bar to the bottom of the hoffman spacing taper?

    It's the same on all frames from Extra Shallow to Dadant deep. Just measure it off of a deep frame.

    >Also how many wires 5 or 6?

    The ones I got from Western Bee are done like they INTENDED for it to be 5 and then didn't drill the top hole. So the first gap is bigger but there is one hole dead center from top to bottom and two below that and one above.


  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    San Mateo, CA
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    The shoulder length is different on different supplier's end bars. Didn't Brother Adam use a pin or peg for spacing ?

    I think Western just used their Langstroth end bar driller on their frames, therefore on hole is missing at the bottom. I just wired them up and the bees never complained or noticed, even the Buckfast bees.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
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    971

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    Yes. I think Br. Adam use hobnail and eyelet screws. I will have to look at this pics. I think I will use Manleys style frames in the supers. They are similar to hoffman but instead of tapering they just go straight down (very easy to make). They are spaced wider probably at 1.5 inches so a 2x6 stock should work perfect (I'll play around here). The bottom bars are as wide as the top bars so when one uncaps its straight across with the knife. I think I will go with 6 wires in the deeps as sagging combs was one of the complaints of the dadant hive. Not to mention if I have to ever extract one of those big boys. With 4.9 cells it might need the extra support during extraction during the first year anyways.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >Yes. I think Br. Adam use hobnail and eyelet screws. I will have to look at this pics.

    Based on my experiece with DE hives and frames, I built some Dadant deep frames that are 3/4" wide top, bottom and ends. I used a staple gun with a spacer to keep the staple from going in too far to make the spacers on the sides. I put just one on each end on opposite sides. Like a letter "Z". So I need half as many spacer and they don't have to line up perfectly.

    > I think I will use Manleys style frames in the supers. They are similar to hoffman but instead of tapering they just go straight down (very easy to make). They are spaced wider probably at 1.5 inches so a 2x6 stock should work perfect (I'll play around here).

    Don't they get glued all the way down the ends?

    >The bottom bars are as wide as the top bars so when one uncaps its straight across with the knife.

    The DE's are this way, but they are only 7/8" wide. The Dadant deep I made was 3/4" wide.

    >I think I will go with 6 wires in the deeps as sagging combs was one of the complaints of the dadant hive. Not to mention if I have to ever extract one of those big boys. With 4.9 cells it might need the extra support during extraction during the first year anyways.

    I put a 1/16" steel welding rod across the middle of mine. I was hoping to build a long hive and harvest cut comb. That way I can cut above and below the rod.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    I have been searching for Dadant deep frames. So far they are all in Europe. Here are the links:

    Dadant Deep Frames:

    UK http://www.beebitz.com/frames.htm http://www.markman4.jo.btinternet.co...ing/frames.htm

    Sweden http://www.swienty.com/pdf/Brutto-Eurozone.pdf

  11. #51
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
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    4,800

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    Look at how long the support lugs are on that frame in the Markman site photo. Looks like the frame would not fit the inside dimensions of our 19 7/8" boxes made out of 3/4" stock, with proper bee space. Plus, what would the freight be on a heavy box of wood from Europe? I know it doubled the cost of my 19 3/4" square queen excluders. But they are beauties, so cost doesn't matter, Riiiiight ?

  12. #52
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >Look at how long the support lugs are on that frame in the Markman site photo. Looks like the frame would not fit the inside dimensions of our 19 7/8" boxes made out of 3/4" stock, with proper bee space.

    It's probably a picture of some British standard frame.

    >Plus, what would the freight be on a heavy box of wood from Europe? I know it doubled the cost of my 19 3/4" square queen excluders. But they are beauties, so cost doesn't matter, Riiiiight ?

    Probably too much. Maybe you could negotiate to just buy the end bars?


  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
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    971

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    OK guys,

    I build my first dadant hive body. I used 1 3/8 hoffman bars. Well I can squeeze 13 frames in this box. Does this sound right to have so much room or did Dadant design this hive to have 1 1/2 inch spacing?

  14. #54
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    >I build my first dadant hive body. I used 1 3/8 hoffman bars. Well I can squeeze 13 frames in this box. Does this sound right to have so much room or did Dadant design this hive to have 1 1/2 inch spacing?

    I have heard that some people space them a little more apart, but with small cell I think 1 3/8 should be fine. 1 1/4" would work. How much space is there on the ouside edges? There should be about a quarter of an inch left between the hoffman spacer and the outside wall to leave enough room there.

    13 extra deep frames of small cells is a lot of brood space.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
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    >How much space is there on the ouside >edges? There should be about a quarter of >an inch left between the hoffman spacer and >the outside wall to leave enough room there.

    MB I can fit exactly 13 frames with no extra space. Yet with 12 frames there is too much space (maybe 1/2 inch each side). Maybe I will go to 1 1/4 spacing.

    That reminds me, what are width of the end bar using the Killion style frames?

  16. #56
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    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    The killion frames don't have a hoffman spacer and they just put in the nails. If I remember right they are standard 1 3/8" spacing. Part of Killion's theory is that the hoffman spaced ones keep getting wider and wider as propolis builds up between them.

    I think leaving "too much" space on the outsides is not that bad. It lets them build some thick storage comb which is what the bees want to do somewhere anyway. You could also make a follower board for one end. Make it a qarter or a half an inch and it will take up some of the space. The ones that Doc Rogers put in the hives I bought from him are about a 3/8" wide top bar with a thin sheet of plastic on it. They are quite simple. I guess I just never quite understood the concept of them. Especially if I have to give up a frame for them. But it would work for a little extra space and then you have more room to move frames around.


  17. #57
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    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
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    I use 12 frames with follower boards made with 1/4" plywood or masonite. You have to be gentle with the lugs with both materials. I actually like using follower boards. We have copius amounts of brace/burr comb and propolis here, and a follower board is often much easier to get out than the frames.

    I made some five or six frame wide solid frames (boxes with lugs) out of plywood, for dividing hives when re-queening. I also have wide division screens for this purpose. That solved the problem of not having a double brood chamber for re-queening. I can use only the follower boards on the top divide as they won't have a work force for a long time. But if I don't use the filler box on the bottom, natural combs ahoy. What a mess.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
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    971

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    OK I will make a follower board. I did my homework last night on the spacing for these hives. Apparently Dadant thought the spacing should be 1 1/2 instead of 1 3/8 as he thought it helped to prevent swarming and give better ventilation. I personally don't go for that at all. I was looking at brushy mountains metal queen excluders, apparently they are un bound. I'm thinking of making a wood frame to wrap around this to make it into a wood bound excluder.

    >I use 12 frames with follower boards made >with 1/4" plywood or masonite.

    Are you using one or 2 followers per colony?

    I am thinking I will make my follower boards go all the way to bottom board. To requeen I will use it to split the colony into 2 halves. One side queenless where the new queen is to be introduced. Upon acceptance, snuff the old girl, and put the follower/ divider back. A few screen boards would probably work well too. But I'd rather not lift them big boxes if I can avoid it

    I think should I decide to make a number of these hives I will make some of these boxes into 4 way nucs with half MD combs like br. adam uses.


  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    crown point, NY, USA
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    971

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    What type of feeders you guys using (or going to use) on these hives? My glass gallon jar feeders I don't think will be appropriate, especially if I have to make a big box to enclose it. Maybe a regular division board feeder or miller feeder?

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    My favorite feeder is a Rapid Feeder that goes over the hole on the inner cover. www.beeworks.com has them. That's probably what I'll use. But then I think feeding can be overrated sometimes.

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