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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    St-Faustin-Lac Carre, Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    20

    Post

    First excuse my english, I am french speaking.

    I think I made quite a compleate survey on the mineral oil subject as I noticed that there are many unvoluntary errors made by many people and all this is misleading a lot. Hope this will help and not make it worst!

    First let's say that we should stop talking about FGMO (Food grade Mineral Oil) when we are speaking about oil to be fogged. This FGMO is NO LONGER a standard and the acronym has been replaced with WMO (White Mineral Oil).

    FGMO standard has been replaced by one of the CAS standards (Chemical Abstract Service number).

    CAS standards covers many type of oils. In our case we are concerned with only one of them, the one who deal with oils that can be mixed with food (former Food Grade) and eaten. There is another quality of oil that can have "contacts" with food. This is a "near" food grade. But let's disclose that group as far as beekeeping is concerned, we are not interested in oils that are not recommanded as far as their edibility is concerned.

    Among the acceptable group (former Food grade) there are two types : light and heavy oil.

    Light oil (CAS 8042-47-5) meets a desity range from .81 to .88 with an average of .85 and with a viscosity around 70 at 38 C.

    The heavy oil (CAS 8012-95-1) has a density of .90+ and a viscosity aroud 70 at 38 C.

    Let us remind at this point that Dr Rodriguez recommandations are : density .86 and viscosity 70.

    Only light oil meeting CAS 8042-47-5 standard meet Dr Rodriguez recommandations. Period!

    Now what about USP (USA) and BP (British) standards? Those standards are pharmaceutical standards that relates to the way the oil is produced and specifically are related to the edibility of the product. They are closely related to the "food grade" concept. BUT there is no relation between USP/BP standards and density or viscosity of the oil. Both light and heavy oils can be USP/BP! Let's make it clear. Contrary to most opinions, oil comming out of pharmacy (laxative oil) are NOT light oils. Most of them are heavy oils and DO NOT MEET DR. Rodriguez recommandations. Those pharmacy oils that can be identified as "light oil" are normally associated with cosmetic products and have other ingredients included like perfumes. So an USP oil does not mean automatically that it is an acceptable oil... and by far. As a general rule oils comming from pharmacy should be avoided if they can not be clearly identified as meeting CAS 8042-47-5 and nothing eles eis added.

    Veterinary oils now. Veterinary usage oils should be considered individually. Some do meet the CAS 8042-47-5 standard other not. I would say, contary to the common opinion, that most of them meet now that standard. So they should not be discarded automatically.

    Frequently mentionned oils like the Drakeol 35 (used by Dr Rodriguez) or the Crystal Plus 70FG do meet in every aspects the CAS 8042-47-5 standard. They are light oils.

    As a conclusion and in order to be sure that someone buys the right oil, everyone should look on the can that the oil meets specifically the CAS 8042-47-5 standard. If not on the can, check on Internet. Most of them have their specs published. If you can't find it don't buy it. DO NOT rely on words like USP/BP, food grade, light oil etc... This is not enough.

    ------------------
    Normand Choiniere
    Mont-Tremblant region, Quebec, Canada.
    http://consultus.qc.ca/valmiel

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Jonquière, Quebec (ABOVE 48th parallel North!!)
    Posts
    150

    Wink

    Hello Mr Choinière

    Glad you translated those infos for our english speaking friends of Beesource

    Votre présence sur ce forum est grandement apréciée... je m'y sentirai moins seul ...

    Hugo

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA and Alcala, Spain
    Posts
    553

    Big Grin

    Hello folks.
    Kudos to your Mr. Choiniere. Sir, You have done a wonderful job and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thouche.
    Your post is the kind of post that gives great assistance to the forum and to beekeeping, clear and simple!

    I would like to add a couple dclarifying sentences to his great contributiion.
    1. It has taken me nine long years to develop my emulsion formula to the point that it is useful and cost-effetive to all beekeepers worldwide. I have weighed and measure the ingredients time and again until arriving at the present formula.
    2. I prefer using the metric system, even though I realize that it might be a bit strange to non-users, but it simply makes it rather easy to prepare the formula by anyone who wishes to make up a batch of cords. Simply divide by ten appropriately for those who need less than 100 pieces of cord, and of course mutiply by ten for those who may need in excess of one humdred pieces of cord. Using the metric system, emulsion makers will not have liquid left in the pot when they soak the cords. Trust me, be precise about your measurments and you will have the appropriate dose of FGMO (forgive me, Mr. C, I prefer to use my old-fashion acronym just to keep every one on the same track. You are precisely right. Either Crystal White or Drakeol 35 mineral oils will meet the standards that I have been working with. Changing the standards will require changing the measurements of the ingredients or you will run into difficulties. You will either have an incomplete emulsion or you will end up with cords too wet and liquid left in the bottom of your pot (heating container).
    3. I know as an absoloute certainty that certain grades of mineral oil used for veterinary purposes will contaminate your hive products and or kill your bees. As a precautionary measure, I have chosen to disqualify all mineral oil intended for veterinary purposes. Hence my preference for the F G M O acronym.
    I consider above additions as a small wsy of saying thanks to Mr. C, and to many others who have contributed to the FGMO forum. It has taken me many hours of careful work to establish the "standards" that I use in my work with the intention to serve every body well and to prevent misunderstandings. My reward is in knowing that I might contribute even an infinitesimal contribution to the wellbeing of beekeeping.
    I apologize if I disappoint those contributors who would prefer to turn the FGMO forum into a debate type page. I lack time to indulge in aspects that do not add to the purpose of the FGMO FORUM. I am not an egotistical person nor do I have anything to deflate. Had I been egocentric or selfish I could very well be at this time basking in the sun in a foreign beach enjoying the pleasures of life with the proceeds I could have obtained at the onset of my research. People like Mr. C. make me feel glad that I did not.
    I wish the very best of results to those who trust my work and welcome those who are willing to chip in their "2 cents" to make this forum a wealth of information for the benefit of beekeeping.
    Best regards.
    Dr. Rodriguez


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Sequim / Wa / USA
    Posts
    175

    Post

    Hi folks
    The contribution of Mt Tremblanc is valid and and has been put together with great care .
    One of the problems of interpretation of anything having to do with taking measures derives from the various so called "Standards" which are no more standards when another is applied .
    Here as an example is the difference between Canadian and Us "Standards " .
    I am , as you all know on a warpath with spoons and cups , feet length of kings and the associated thumbs and all the other archaic middle age terminologies and attempts to measure things with .
    There is however one item , which came from the "Horses mouth" ( Not Dr R !!!)as it applies to pharmaceutical application of this so called FGMO.
    One pharmaceutical outfit does indeed use one of the oils recommended and applies it's own label . Since it does not specifies it on the container one does NOT buy anything from a pharmacy advertised as MO.
    Stick to drakeol 35 or Crystal 70 , Both have the same specs .
    Your's JDF

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