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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Julian, NC, USA
    Posts
    252

    Post

    I have scanned prior postings and saw no mention of the following article on this forum or others. This article appeared in the August issue of American Bee Journal (page 599). The reson for the post, is that I find the similarities on how the treatment works as well as application very interesting. It seems that DR. R's research may have allowed others a helping hand.

    The entire article is below in quotes. I hope this proves informative.

    "An EPA approved varroacide that is exempt from tolerance for all food crops, kills varroa rapidly and breaks down into sugar and fatty acids. It's for real !
    Dadant and Sons, inc. brand of Avachem Sucrose Octanoate has been quickly approved for registration to treat varroa mites in the state of Florida. Commercial test marketing of this new safe class of varroacide will begin later this year in Florida only. Release to the general beekeeping industry will begin in 2004.
    Dadant Sucrose Octanoate is applied as a liquid spray and must come into contact with the varroa mite to be effective. This ecologically friendly varroacide is synthesized from agricultural raw materials that are both edible and renewable. Dadant Sucrose Octanoate varrocide kills rapidly by suffocating the varroa mites or dissolving the waxy coating that protects them from drying out. It does not harm honey bees.
    The Environmental Protection Agency, (EPA) has awarded a general registration that includes an exemption from tolerance for all food crops.
    This is the first class of varroacides that is safe to use on or around honey bees, beeswax, honey and most importantly...you."

    best regards,

    Kurt

    Kurt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,270

    Post

    Actually,this has been discussed on this board.While it shows good potential,the problem is the amount of time required to spray each frame.If one is treating a few hives it could be a good solution,but I need to find ways to spend far less time per hive,not more.
    ---Mike

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,081

    Post

    The question is how many applications are needed. If this is something that can be applied one time in the fall to knock the mites down and perhaps once in the spring as needed, than its better than fogging and cords on a weekly basis all year long. I at least inspect most of my hives, frame by frame this many times (2) per year. So its no more time than I already spend unless its something requiring weekly or monthly application.

    This sounds like the non-chemical solution that most have been looking for. I am looking forward to it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    2,270

    Post

    I am pretty sure it will require at least several treatments about a week apart to get mites coming out with the emerging brood.By then they should be about wiped out,so you wouldnt have to keep doing it.Anyway its too early to pass judgement on it,in time there should be faster ways to apply it.

    [This message has been edited by loggermike (edited August 07, 2003).]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA and Alcala, Spain
    Posts
    553

    Post

    Hello folks.
    Mike Bush.
    I have been recommending integrated pest management for several years (see article with participation of at least four other scientiests in Spain), which includes the use of
    1) treatment with your method of choice
    2) hygienic behavior selection
    3) screened bottom boards w/
    a) sticky trap on a tray
    Those who utilize a sticky trap and tray below the screened board automatically have a closure for the hive forcing FGMO mist to flow up into the hive. This year I am using both types of hive. Screened bottom boards w/sticky trap on a tray, and screened bottom board opened to the outside. I have not had any difficulty with the flow of the FGMO fogg flowing upward into the hive. Like you say, I always notice the fog coming out of the top of the hive and through cracks and other openings of the hives.
    Time required for treatments.
    People continue to complain about the length of time reqauired to perform treatments with FGMO. I think those who complain are those WHO HAVE NOT actually attempted to do fogging. I just happened to treat 31 hives yesterday with my fogger, (and I took my time purposely). I treated all 31 hives under 5 minutes.
    Then I ask. Is there any treatment procedure that takes less than 5 minutes to thoruoughly treat 31 hives? Please think about it.
    Granted, changing the emulsion cords
    takes longer, but is the time and effort worth it? I have enourmous bee populations
    that even though started on Mardh 29 already have a supper full of honey using nothing but FGMO fog and emulsion soaked cords. Healthy, disease-free honey bees produce honey to pay for the expense in managing them. Or do we pretend to harvest huge honey yields expense-free. Also, are we comparing costs and labor relative to other forms of treatment. In fairness to beekeeping and the welfare of our honey bees, I think that comparative testing must be conducted side by side to be able to make real judgements. I will be testing more effective means of replacing the emulsion soaked cords next year. The prospects are excellent.
    Then again, there is the chemical dangers to hive products and the environment, a factor that should never be disregarded.

    In economics, imagination does not quite balance the ledgers.
    FGMO acts in two ways. Mechanically by blocking the spiracles of the mites causing them to die of asphyxia. Biologically by depriving them of body fluids necessary for their biological functions. Neither of these two factors affect honey bees as has been demonstrated during 9 consecutive years of research. I am delighted to see other selective methods of non-chemical treatments.
    I have been praying for this eventuality.
    Thank The Almighty for His bountiful goodness.
    Best regards.
    Dr. Rodriguez

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,270

    Post

    I have to agree that there is no quicker method than fogging.A commercial yard can be fogged quicker than opening a hive and putting in strips.The problem arises when there are lots of outyards that require weekly treatments.The travel expense has to be weighed against the benefits.It is a question of economics.Some can do this economically,and others cant.And as the chemical treatments continue to lose effectiveness this will probably change.If we can keep cheap imported honey from driving down the price of honey,the economics of IPM methods will continue to improve.
    ---Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,081

    Post

    I am not wanting to upset anyone, and not looking for self martyrs or self-rightous egos. I would only wish to participate in open dialog on all avenues and opinions concern the battle against v-mites.

    Is it possible (I'm asking) to have all comments, posts, etc, (not concerning FGMO) be listed on something other than the FGMO forum? I guess this is for all who participate, but has Barry ever directly asked that non-FGMO posts not be listed here?

    Seems as if dialog or positive comments for other methods, even when not directly condemning FGMO, turns into a FGMO discussion and the positive aspects of other methods may be shoved in the background by trying to justify or defend FGMO.
    Thank-you.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,481

    Post

    I agree this would be better in Disease and Pests.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,270

    Wink

    Well one thing leads to another.....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Mason, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,015

    Post

    I have used FGMO for the last 2 years as per Dr. R. I fog weekly and replace the cords monthly. I have 503 hives all together and travel about 100 miles weekly. I have lost only one hive to moisture in these 2 years and believe my time spent on travel saves me money compaired to chemical costs and the time to use them. I use no other chemicals in my hives and have started to down size to 4.9 mm foundation in 3 hives as an experement. I will also use FGMO on these also
    I am a believer in FGMO
    Clint


    ------------------
    Clinton Bemrose
    just South of Lansing Michigan

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston,Va USA
    Posts
    4

    Post

    This is my first year using FGMO and I am encouraged with the results, thus far. I use screened bottom boards on the majority of my hives, but have several that I have not yet converted. While screened bottom boards are sure to yield better results, has anyone had long term success with the solid BBs and slightly more frequent foggings? I appologize if this has already been addressed on previous postings, but I have not come across it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama
    Posts
    536

    Post

    Kharry,

    Here are two items I found using the search function in the Beesource Bulletin Board, and an article by Dr. R. in the Point of View section. None are conclusive, at least the way I read them, as to whether or not FGMO works with a solid bottom board. There may be more info but I couldn't find it. Seems like there would be info on how it works with a solid as opposed to a screened BB. Maybe someone who has tried it that way will have some info for you. This qustion may get missed under the title of Dadant Sucrose Octanoate, so if it goes for a few days try again under a new title. We will probably be told to search the existing archives as I already have done, but maybe someone will share an answer.
    http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000031.html
    http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000107.html
    http://beesource.com/pov/rodriguez/fgmo2001report.htm

    ------------------
    Rob Koss

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Sequim / Wa / USA
    Posts
    175

    Post

    Rel to ikeepbees
    I must agree that there is little or no info of the application with solid bottom boards . Personally I cannot comment since I introduced sbbs since 1999 and a modified version since early 2000 coinciding with FGMO treatment .
    I have the notion , since incidents occured with of flame throwing and the explosive incident ( In other posts) that there are beekeepers which did not convert yet and should be able to answer your legitimate question .
    JDF

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA and Alcala, Spain
    Posts
    553

    Big Grin

    Hello Folks.
    Just returned from the Tampa Bay Area in Florida where I made a presentation to their organization (TBBA). To all of them my heart felt thanks. This is my first visit to that area and although it rained constantly for two plus days, I saw enough to think that the future of apiculture may very well rely on the attention that beekeepers in that region dedicate to preserve their "apicultural garden of eden".
    Mr. Clinton Benrose. Thanks for your magnificent testimonial. I have a question for you. Do you know Mrs. Blanche Barber? I am in need of communicating with her about my presentation in MI but I have lost her phone number and I do not have an e-mail address for her. If you do, please let her know about this message. Again, thank you very much for your trust in my work and FGMO.
    Re: SBB. I started doing FGMO with solid boards and I still use a combination of solid boards and sbb's. FGMO may be more effective with solid boards, but we can not disregard the benefit of eliminating the mites that fall off and disappear through the meshed boards.
    Again, I continue to think that all of us would be happier by working with those procedures that work best for you. I humbly provide the results of my trials hoping that they may work for you as well as they have for me. And please do not forget that I will always be available to reply to individual questions addressed to my e-mail address.
    Best regards.
    Dr. Rodriguez

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Boston,Va USA
    Posts
    4

    Post

    Many thanks to those who responded to my question concerning use of the screened BB! While I'm sure that the screened BB is MOST effective at reducing mite loads, I have several hives that appear to be doing quite well with only the solid BB. I fog at least weekly (sometimes twice with no apparent ill effects) and am hopeful the more frequent foggings will compensate for the lack of cords.

    Not trying to reinvent the wheel by not adherring to proven procedure, just lack the time (and back) to take off the supers on a regular basis.

    Dr. Rodriguez's reply leaves me optimistic that my hives are not an anomoly.

    Many thanks again to the good Dr., and others, who make this bulletin board so informative and helpful.

    Kevin Harry

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA and Alcala, Spain
    Posts
    553

    Big Grin

    Hello folks.
    In one of my publications I wrote that I am working with a beekeeper in Spain that uses only fogging once a week and that he is having tremendous success. This year I am working with another beekeeper in Virginika who does fogging only and has screened bottom boards. So far, results indicate that the project will be successful.
    Have a wonderful day.
    Dr. Rodriguez

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    393

    Post

    Has anyone made contact with the Barbers regarding the message above?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,196

    Arrow

    > has Barry ever directly asked that non-FGMO posts not be listed here?

    I don't think so, but I don't mind saying that the FGMO Forum is for discussion about FGMO and its use. There are plenty of other Forums to discuss all other bee related topics. Occasionally I will move threads around to a more suitable Forum. Please help keep the Board user friendly by honoring the Forum topics.

    Regards,
    Barry

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA and Alcala, Spain
    Posts
    553

    Post

    Good morning folks.
    Way to go Barry!
    I have been waiting to hear you state your opinion on this subject for a long time.
    And, please do not change the name of the forum. Please keep it FGMO.
    Thanks.
    Best regards.
    Dr. Rodriguez

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