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Thread: FGMO Outline

  1. #1
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    Greetings . . .

    I recommend that anyone interested in FGMO, read the summary posted at: www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000041.html

    Using that summary and ALL posts/replies lised before March 9, 2003, I have made the following outline:

    FGMO TREATMENT METHOD as of 3/10/03 per Beesource.com Bulletin Board

    METHOD DESCRIPTION
    Regular application of Food Grade Milerial Oil in the form of a 15 micron vapor, and regular application of emulsion treated cords.(000041) A highly effective treatment and mechanical control for Varroa and Tracheal mites(DW).

    OIL DESCRIPTION
    Food Grade Mineral Oil, also called Liquid Parafin, has a density of 0.86. A petroleum derivative that is odorless and colorless. Used widely in the food industry.(000041) May be purchased from pharmacy, as a laxative. Must be marked "U.S.P." One liter (33.8 fl oz) of oil will fog 7 colonies once-a-week for an entire season or make enough cord emulsion to treat 200 pieces of cord, 20" long. Enough cords to replace them every 2 weeks in 7 hives for 7 months.(000066) COST - Wal-mart Pharmacy, 1 pint (16 fl. oz), $1.62.(DW)

    FOGGER DESCRIPTION
    Burgess Propane Insect Fogger(000041), Model 1443. Made by Fountainhead Group, Burgess Products, 23 Garden St., New Your mills, NY. Use ONLY mineral oil in fogger, NEVER use emulsion. COST - Lowes Home Center, $59.96 plus 14.1 oz Disposable Propane Cylinder, $2.44.(DW)

    CORD DESCRIPTION
    20" long x 5/16" dia. (approx size of a wooden pencil)(DW) all cotton cords (mop strands).(000025) COST - Lowes Home Center, #24 Cotton Wet Mop Head Refill, $3.98 (150 cords, 3/16-1/4" dia x 32" long)(DW)

    EMULSION INGREDIENTS
    17 fl oz Food Grade Mineral Oil, 1/2 lb bees wax, 10-1/2 oz honey.(DW)

    EMULSION and CORD PREPARATION
    Melt wax and add to heated oil. Remove from heat, add honey and 60 cords. Stir w/ wooden spoon, soak cords well. Allow to cool. (000041) Storage method and shelf-life of cords. (?DW)
    _____________________________________________

    TREATMENT - FOGGER
    Apply fog for 4 seconds through open Screened Bottom Board or through hive entrance.(000041)

    WHEN to Fog
    Begin fogging package bees about a week after installation.(000039)
    Begin fogging established colonies as soon as bees are flying in spring.(?DW)
    Do not fog when bees are clustered.(000054)
    If not currently using FGMO treatment, you may begin at any time of the year.(?DW)
    Fog when foragers are out of hive.(000041)
    Fog may be applied during honey season.(000041)
    Fog every week.(000049 & 000066)
    Fog once-a-week in fall.(000058)
    Fog every 2 weeks as long as the weather permits.(000046)
    Fof every 15 days.(000041)

    TREATMENT - CORDS
    Place 2 (2x20=40") emulsion treated cords on top of frames (snake-crawl fashion)(000085) in each brood chamber and each honey super.(000041)
    Four one meter cords. Two 40" sections of cords.(000099)

    WHEN to apply Cords
    Place cords on frames at time of installation of package bees.(000093)
    In spring, replace cords as soon as it's possible to open hive.(?DW)
    Replace cords every 2 weeks.(000066)
    Replace cords when they are removed by the bees.(000041)
    Cords may be applied during honey season.(000041)
    Leave cords through winter.(000046)
    Two cords required during a 15 day interval.(000099)
    _____________________________________________

    MONITORING
    Use Screened Bottom Board (SSB) or Open Mesh Floor (OMF).(000041)
    Use FGMO coated trays for collecting mites.(000041)
    Maintain continuous monitoring.(000041) (Need to Explain how often)(DW)
    Employ additional treatment such as Drone Brood Trapping.(000041)
    Mite fall can be expected for several days after using fogger.(000041)
    20 mites / 24 hrs on sticky board could be a medium to higher infestion.(000046)

    MISC COMMENTS
    Fogging, in combination w/ SSB and you will have zero mites in fall.(000049)
    Honey season coincides w/ biggest brood build-up, which causes greatest number of Varroa. If no treatment in May to July, number of mites in July will be in the thousands.(000041)
    Increased mite rates in late months of the year, (Sept, Oct?????) are caused by foraging bees (robbing) infested/dying hives. Have dealt w/ this situation by increasing the quantity of cords and stepping up fogging schedule.(000058)

    Thanx
    Dave W


    [This message has been edited by Dave W (edited March 10, 2003).]


    March 13, 2003
    GREETINGS . . .

    A gift is often bestowed on someone who is worthy of honor and respect. That gift is always received with appreciation by someone who is honarable and respectable. An unsolicited and gratuitous gift is one that is given from the heart. A gift may be small, insignificant, or undesired, but when it is kindly accepted with gratitude, it can embolden a humble giver.

    Most of you have offered praise and kind words for my FGMO outline. Thank You. My work was offered without any expection of acknowledgment. I had something to contribute, and without hesitation or regret, I shared what little I had. In the future, when I can help ANY of you, I will offer my hand. And, when I can help and failed to offer, please ask.

    Eyeryone is blessed with many things; some have great minds, capable of complex thought. Others, can analyze and separate information. Most have trouble following directions if the details are not presented in an organized manner. I hope my outline can be used to great advantage by everyone.

    I have added a six-digit number at the end of some of the statements in my outline. The number can be used to locate the original comment.
    Example: This topic can be found At: http://www.beesource.com/ubb/FORUM11/HTML/000099.html
    Look for replies given by Dr. Pedro Rodriguez. I may have twisted, confused, or made many mistakes, so please point out the errors and I will change the outline. And, when Dr. Rodrigues posts his own, systematic listing of the most important points, I will delete this one.

    Thanx and F.G.M.O. = For Get My Outline
    Dave W

    [This message has been edited by Dave W (edited March 13, 2003).]

  2. #2
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    Wow!

  3. #3
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Exclamation

    Hi Dave -

    Thanks for your efforts in compiling this outline. The fact that it was compiled from a lot of different postings, some of which MAY not be accurate, I think it would be wise and considerate for Dr. Rodriguez to review it and give his comments to insure its accuracy. I think it is very important to make sure something of this nature be very accurate. Let's leave your original post alone and now open up the floor for comment and any additions or corrections and then we can update it as need be.

    Regards,
    Barry

  4. #4
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    Excellent work !!!!!! Thanks

  5. #5
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    Neodesha, Ks
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    I for One appreciate having ALL of the Info in one place. I think that this is great for reference or Printing providing it is O Ked by Dr. Rodreguez. Dale

  6. #6
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    This treatment looks to be alot of work...
    Seems to me I remember reading Dr. Rodriguez's studdy results on the cords lasting up to 3 to 4 weeks and fogging once or twice a month,... Maybe Dr. Rodriguez can set this straight for us.

    Ian

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
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    Sequim / Wa / USA
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    Hi Dave and all
    First let me congratulate you on a sound effort to clarify or condense what was posted previously and left questions open for discussion. Another suggestion was the posting of a FAQ which you very adequately started
    I like to partake in few comments for further discussion.
    If one checks on the research previously accomplished , one could give credit to those and it would not take much more along those lines to reinvent the wheel . I am somewhat disappointed that not more researchers made the effort to help Dr Rodriguez in his thesis and prove to those standing at the bylines the value of the FGMO approach.
    There is really not much I could say or add to your writ.
    The fogging and application can begin at any time .
    The fogging can be done when bees are clustered , although the effect is reduced because of it
    Reason. I have noted the drop of mites on the BB outside the debris of the cluster in the area of food supply combs . This could indicate the presense of mites on the bee searching for food.
    The fogging can be done when all foragers are in the hive to catch varroa brought in from other colonies .
    The fogging does not have to be curtailed to one specific time of day . The nurse bees are more exposed when foragers are not present . An altenate application time is certainly in order . The re-installation of cords should be done when all emulsion has been removed , thus saving the cords and wastes no time for the bees to shred and transport the cotton.
    There may be no noticable drop off after treatments in all cases .
    Even though ther are relatively few mites present during the months from april to late august / September , you will find an increase ( Not in all colonies ) from October to early Jan . ( Depending on climatic circumstances ) 'This indicates the requirement of continuous appication of primarily fogging since the the bees do not leave the cluster to clean the cords.
    They begin to works the cords with the advent of brooding.
    The final judgement is not cast in stone but depends on your location as well as the weather or climatic environments.
    Compare your observations with other beekeepers in your locale .
    Finally : Your research or observations are as valid as any , as long as you do not be attempted to compose a fairy tale . One incident does not make it a rule .
    Thganks agin for your splendid post !
    JDF

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    Virginia Beach, VA and Alcala, Spain
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    Hello all.
    Yes, indeed, it is commendable that someone in the group of participants would take the trouble to "condense" to call it something, the sum total of eight years of work. And to top it off, not even considering to ask the originator to review it for accuracy.
    During past years, I have attempted to post promptly my findings as can be ascertained by consecutive reports on this web page. Since Barry's original and kind suggestion of offering the forum for posting, I have constantly stressed the need to read my test reports, and have strongly emphasized on the need of following the protocol (including measures) as established by those tests as being most effective.
    It is highly disappointing to find departures from these being recommended. For example, I emphazise that tests have shown that at least two one meter cords are required during a 15 day interval for optimum mite control. Two 40 inches x 5/16 inch sections of cords. (Granted a typographical error was made in my January 2003 ABJ ariticle, but an explanatory correction was submittted to this forum with apologies and a letter to the editor is being submitted to ABJ .
    I am disappointed with the distortion of facts in the forum. This can lead only in one direction, failures.
    I have Varroa-free honey bee colonies
    treated once a month with 4 one meter FGMO emulsion soaked cords and fogging, and on the contrary, I know of experiments that have failed when two half meter cords were used. My colonies are less than one half kilometer away from another beeyard heavily infested with Varroa which inevitably are transferred to my hives. But guess what, they do not take hold in my hives.
    Why? Consistency.
    Everyone is entitled to do with their bees whatever they think is most suitable to them. I humbly suggest to those who depart from established procedures, please do not blame failures on FGMO and other methods presently employed for mite control.
    Best regards.
    Dr. Rodriguez

  9. #9
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    I thought an open forum was for all to contribute thoughts, ideas, and findings. I have not noticed anybody else needing to ask approval before posting a reply on any subject matter. If the outline is incorrect, than somebody point it out and note the changes. Please spare me the egos.
    I appreciate the effort to condense "8 years of research" as I do not have time to read every finding. I only want the steps to maximize my time and efforts.
    To say someone can't take previously open given information, and add, comment, condense, or anything else is ridiculous. If the person made a mistake with the info than with constructive criticism in mind, make the corrective comments.
    I am going to start FGMO treatments as the weather breaks and need workable info in a easy given format. Not 8 years of finding, posts, etc.
    I have never used FGMO, but have always kept an ample amount of crisco patties on my hives. I have no research, but have always thought that the crisco did alot to minimize mites in the hives. The FGMO methods seems just on pure reason to be a better way to spread an oil based mite control method. I look forward to positive results this coming year.
    I would also like to commend Dr. Pedro Rodriguez, as well as Dave W. and all who contribute to the bee world.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    Danbury,Ct. USA
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    Dr. R.
    Dave W deserved the spanking for being disrespectful, however your brain-child is now out in the cruel world. As an author I know a little of how that feels. Others will now "do their thing'" with the information. In defense of Dave, I think he was condensing the postings as well as your papers. I know I could have used such a succinct presentation when I began with FGMO. A few of us thought the emulsion went in the fogger! He has also highlighted some confusion about frequency of application(in the postings). He knew you'd read this thread and thus you are reviewing it now. Had he posted it on another site ... it would be unforgiveable.

    Dave W.
    Thanks for a lot of hard work in trying to filter the wheat from the chaff in FGMO. You've started some discussion I fear. When that is over FGMO will be the better for it. For your information ... an authors work is his private property. If you sought to amend or embellish something I wrote, you'd have the same reaction. You have a spelling mistake in your post. How would you feel if I corrected it for you?

    Juan,
    Am I to understand that you fogged your bees all winter? In Ct I'm guessing my climate is similar to yours. How often did you fog? Did all your bees survive? Wetness is supposed to kill more bees than cold. Do you have any concerns that the moisture in the oil will chill the bees? I suspect we are on the verge of separate protocols for different climates. Has anyone else fogged in the cold?

    Dickm


    [This message has been edited by dickm (edited March 12, 2003).]

  11. #11
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    Dave W
    THANKS FOR TRYING, I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU DID.
    Bill

  12. #12
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    >I am disappointed with the distortion of facts in the forum. This can lead only in one direction, failures.

    Dr. Pedro Rodriguez, what would you expect, you are posting to a public forum.
    Perhaps your studdies are as clearly defined as you suggest they are.
    I'm sure Dave W acted in complete innocence, don't get so defensive...

    Ian

  13. #13
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    I'm glad for the summary. I have printed the posting and finds and research and poured over them many nights this winter justto get me up to speed on the information from the last 8 years. I have requested before something like this summary. The summary version can be laminated and taken to the bee yard for reminders. Stacks of research and posting in the bee yard in OK become many leaflets of paper in the wind.

  14. #14
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    I commend Dr. Rodrigeuz for his work trying to help ALL Beekeepers by posting his findings on FGMO. Apart from the obvious mistakes made in the outline the one thing that bothers me is Dr. Rodrigeuz has made plain several times is to purchase FGMO from STE OIL as they have the correct mineral oil [viscosity], and not to use mineral oil that can be purchased from the local pharmacy that may have additives in it. This is important because if you use the wrong mineral, this is the first step to failure and the whole process of using FGMO. Lets correct the Outline and repost it so we all do the process right. After all we are trying to control the mites, not argue amoung ourselves. My $.02 Dale

  15. #15
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    russ / $.02 Dale:

    Where is the post that says "not to use oil from pharmacy"?

    Please give me the following:
    Forum Name or number (FGMO, Forum 11)
    Six-digit Topic Number (000099)
    Reply Date (March 13, 2003)

    If Dr Rodrigues will verify the infomation, I will glady make any change.

    Thanx
    Dave W

  16. #16
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    I have seen the subject of FGMO from the pharmacy come up several times on this forum. The only caveat I've seen is to make sure it's not BABY oil or any othe form of mineral oil that contains fragrance. Baby oil is mineral oil. It's even the right viscocity and it WILL NOT WORK because the scent will totally mess up the hive. The kind sold as laxitive never has any fragrance in it.

    If this is not correct this would be a good place for Dr Rodriguez to correct it.

    My 2 cents worth. I understand that Dr Rodriguez deserves the right to correct the summary, but it is just that, a summary of what has been posted on this forum and I for one find it helpful in that I don't have to sort through all of the posts to find all of that information. I assumed all of the question marks were express invitations to Dr. Rodriguez to do just that. It was clearly not intended to be disrepectful of the work that the Doctor has done. I look forward to any corrections or simplifications Dr. Rodriguez can offer.

    Again, I would like to say how much I, for one, appreciate the tireless and sometimes unrewarding work that has been done by you, Dr. Rodriguez. Thank you.

  17. #17
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    brown county,indiana,usa
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    Question

    i know that fgmo sold at a pharmacy is considered"pharmaceutical grade",i have presumed that it is the same or better than "food grade"?

  18. #18
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    I must say that the outline is great. I see no glaring mistakes (except perhaps the length of the cords to be used?).
    However, what I really don't see at all is lack of respect in it. The man just offered a guide but did not requested copyrights on it. He certainly did not take ownership of the method. This is not a journal where materials are submitted, reviewed and then posted. It is a discussion group. In discussions, people say things and sometimes may say things that are not entirely right. That is the nature of human communication.
    Perhaps I am saying nothing that was not said here before really, but I wanted to say what I think and that is how we talk about bee things here, at least it has been since I joined.

    Jorge

  19. #19
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    >i know that fgmo sold at a pharmacy is considered"pharmaceutical grade",i have presumed that it is the same or better than "food grade"?

    The issue is not the "grade" as long as it is food grade, which pharmaceutical grade is, but the two issues are added fragrance (as in the case of baby oil) and the viscocity (as in the case of FGMO sold for cattle feed etc.) It has to NOT have fragrance and it has to be the correct viscocity (thickness) in order to areosolize correctly.

  20. #20
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    My point was this, WHY take a chance. Use what is recomended and give the process a fighting chance to work. It is not that hard to order what Dr. Rodregeuz has recomended. I ordered a gal. and that is enough to do a lot of hives. Dale

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