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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Inver Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,462

    Post

    Go to the library, get a copy of Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship, and then read it. It'll take a while, but it's fun.

    Then when the weather warms up a bit, find a SMALL boat, and start practicing. You may find small water sailing is better than big water. I've been sailing since I was about 7 years old and have never been on anything bigger than Lake Superior (which I guess is pretty big) and have no intention of taking any ocean going trips.

    It's the most fun when you can get another boat to go out with you. There is nothing better than a little friendly racing. (And a couple friendly drinks afterwards)

    A Sunfish is an exellent small lake racer. Easy to sail. No jib to mess with. Only two lines and really you only need to mess with one except when raising or lowering the sail.

    Get wet. Have fun.

    Oh, talk to someone experienced about how to upright a small boat. It's not hard, but it can appear hard the first time.
    Linux - World domination through world cooperation

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    3,598

    Post

    here's a classic "must read" for free online

    http://www.humboldt1.com/ar/literary/slocum2.htm

    Slocum was the first to circumnavigate singlehanded

    Dave

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
    Posts
    6,575

    Post

    I found this sailing forum. Not nearly as big or active as beesource, but interesting nonetheless.

    http://www.cruisersforum.com/
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    hidalgo county texas
    Posts
    303

    Post

    you could go to the local book store or mag shop and pick up a copy of wooden boat in the back they have boats for sale and even some for free all sizes

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Park City, Ut
    Posts
    26

    Post

    George. You can always rig a righting line around the tramp. Carry a couple heavy duty leaf bags on the boat for filling with water when you need additional weight getting it turned over. Flying a hull is great fun, but in reality, your spilling alot of air and losing speed when you lift the hull that high. The weather hull should be just lapping the water keeping the boat as flat as possible, but cutting the drag in half. When the rigging starts singing, you know your maxing it out. If the hulls have a tendency to dive when driving hard to weather, lengthen the forstay slightly. This moves power back toward the center of the boat. Hobie Cats are designed with a severe rocker, and highly overpowered rig and there are many tuning points to balance the boat.

    If the cat is too much for ya, get something in the olympic class small boats like a flying dutchman. But I would always get something with a jib. While there is some drive to weather with a jib, its' real job is to generate big horsepower by funneling more air, actually increasing lift (the wing is vertical not horizontal)

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Boy izduz, sounds like you know your cats! We carried extra lines and for sure, had many enjoyable hours of sailing with BOTH hulls in the water. It was amazing how well it would sail with almost no wind at all.

    It was fun to really fly it when the wind was right though, and we did on plenty of occassions. The first time we dumped it, the port hull leaked and quickly sank. That was a fiasco that took 3 days to recover from [img]smile.gif[/img]

    It really is too much boat for me, not that I couldn't sail it. I'm looking for something requiring a lot less committment. I'd be happy this summer with a sunfish. Maybe a few weeks pushing one of those around the lake will make me think twice about a Hobie [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Dulcius ex asperis

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Park City, Ut
    Posts
    26

    Post

    Yes, Ive been around Hobie Cats a long time. I started sailing them in the early 70's and still have one in the back yard. It doesn't get in the water much anymore, but I just can't part with it.

    One thing to remember about boats. A bigger, faster, more comfortable boat is always tugging on your sleeve trying to get your attention. You can shorten the trip by starting with a little more boat at the beginning.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    15

    Post

    Cyote,
    There is a thing out your way called land yachting. Very basically it is a 'sunfish' sailboat with wheels that you sail on a dry lake bed. You have a nice hard surface under you, a very strong fast 'boat' that can achieve speeds of 100mph+ and no brakes. What could possibly go wrong? [img]smile.gif[/img] I found the name of a shop that may be localish to you and they may be able to give you more/better info.
    TERRA SAILER INC.
    15 Nova Road
    Santa Fe NM 87505
    505-471-8255

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    >There is a thing out your way called land yachting.

    Excellent suggestion Chris- go for it Coyote! I've heard it's a blast, the only thing comparable here in Maine is ice boating and my personal favorite, being towed on ice skates by a car, snomobile, or ice boat. A few other suggestions:

    First, make sure your insurance is paid up and that you're covered for multiple fractures and lacerations and extended hospital stays. Mortuary insurance might not be out of the question. Read your policy carefully to make sure there's no limitations for "gross negligence" or downright stupidity. You might lower your deductihle to around oh, say $2 or so.

    Second, wear a helmet.

    George-
    Dulcius ex asperis

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Post

    I have a copy of "Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship" if your interested. Would condider trading bee stuff for it.

    It is a great book for learning the basics and well beyond.

    I live on a shallow lake that the North Dakota winds can get you absolutly screaming on!!!!!

    A blast

  11. #31
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    >I live on a shallow lake

    That's the other thing izduz. I live on Clary lake which is about 1 mile across and 1.5 miles long. The wind tends to come out of the north west and run down the lake, so our best (fastest) runs are back and forth across the lake. At speed, it takes about 2 minutes before you've gotta slam on the brakes and tack... hardly enough time to get comfortable. Running up and down the lake likewise involves a lot of tacking, plus the winds are squirrely with the coves. An 18' hobie cat is a LOT of boat for a lake this size.
    Dulcius ex asperis

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Park City, Ut
    Posts
    26

    Post

    Whatever boat you settle on, join a racing association, grit your teeth, and go hard. Most of the time, you will probably end up with a wet butt and an empty gut, but it's great fun, and racing is where you really learn. For a number of years, I participated in a racing clinic at San Diego. They provided small J-boats. Quick and responsive. When you get a sailboat set up right, you can sail it without turning the rudder. (light air tactic) and shift body weight to roll tack her or turn.
    Anyways.. have a ball.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Bartonville, TX USA
    Posts
    456

    Post

    Find a chapter of the Coast Guard Auxiliary - believe it or not there is probably one in the desert too. They offer beginning sailing classes for free or a token fee.

    Usually ends up with one or two lessons on the water. You can offer to crew for racers, they always need 'rail meat' but you will not learn sailing so much as competing, yelling and a sign language.

    Sailing and beekeeping can be the same - both can bring you closer to nature and raise your awareness.

    wfarler
    'Salsa Caliente'
    C36 Lake Texohoma, TX

    [size="1"][ March 09, 2006, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: wfarler ][/size]
    "Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes"
    Henry David Thoreau, Walden

  14. #34

    Post

    Ever since I spent a week on a sailboat in Florida I've been looking at boats and wondering "What if..."
    Anyway, how hard is it to learn to sail?
    Hi. My name is Chris and I'm in the US Coast Guard. I'm retiring in a couple years and moving back home to NC and have been researching bee s as a possible passtime once I hang up the uniform. All I can say about your question is please wait two years to attempt this so I don't have to go looking for you.


    Seriously, if you are interested in learning to sail there are Celestrial Navigation courses available online from many sources, such as the College of Charleston in SC, and our CG auxiliary is also available to help with a courtesy safety inspection prior to setting sail. I strongly suggest taking advantage of both of these opportunities before you ever leave the dock. Your life literally could depend on it.

    [size="1"][ March 17, 2006, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Rainman15 ][/size]

  15. #35

    Post

    Hey Chris! Bees are fun but still no mach for a 44'r in heavy surf.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
    Posts
    6,575

    Post

    <I strongly suggest taking advantage of both of these opportunities before you ever leave the dock.>

    Not to worry, I'm a long way from attempting anything on my own. But if I WAS...

    http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp;jsessionid=b3jONCFJ5Kbc?sl im=broker&boat_id=1422734&ybw=&hosturl=a1a&&ywo=a1 a&&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=18 224&url=&hosturl=a1a&&ywo=a1a&
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Blountstown, Florida
    Posts
    535

    Post

    Coyote ! Sailing , huh ?

    Here is something for you to consider. I saw your post saying it was confusing about downwind sailing v. sailing on other points.

    The reason a sailboat moves (other than when sailing downwind ) is the same reason an airplane does.... "lift."

    If you could hover directly above the top point of a mast as the boat was sailing, the shape of the sail would be amazingly similar to the wing of an aircraft.

    What makes an aircraft (a/c) fly (or move forward for that matter) has to do with the physics of air molecules passing on each side of the "foil" (or wing... or sail). Physics law demands that when they go to each side on the leading edge, they must meet at the trailing edge at the same time.

    The shortest distance between two points is, of course, a straight line. That is the case (a straight line) on ONE side of the foil, but not the other. Therefore, in order for the one molecule to meet up with the other molecule at the same time, the molecule on the curved side has to travel FASTER than the straight side to be able to do it.

    This unequal speed results in "lift" on the curved side. Actually, you have positive pressure created on the curved side, and that positive pressure is what creates the additional "pull" and drags the sail, and whatever else is attached to it (the mast, and since the mast happens to be attached to the boat, the boat moves too) in the direction of the pull.

    In the case of the a/c, the pull of the propeller is forward, thereby causing the a/c to move in that direction. The forward motion of the a/c causes air to flow over the wings, repeating the aforementioned process, but with the pull being on the top side of the wing, creating "lift" and the faster the a/c moves forward, the more upward lift is created and the plane eventually leaves the ground. "Whew" !

    With a sailboat, the lift is basically only directed forward, so the boat moves in that direction.

    The little sail you see on the bow area of a sailboat (the jib, or genoa, depending on it's size) utilizes the "venturi" effect which simply directs more air over the curved side of the mainsail, thus creating even greater pressure and resulting in even greater speed.

    Sailing downwind, there is no venturi effect and the wind is merely PUSHING the boat (as opposed to pulling it by lift) and therefore, the boat can only move forward as fast as the wind itself happens to be blowing. Gawd !!

    The size of a displacement hull vessel has a direct effect on it's maximum speed. The longer the boat, the faster it can sail. But I will save the lecture on what a displacement hull is, how it works and the difference between it and a planing hull for another time. Right now, I have worn my typers out !! hehehe

  18. #38
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
    Posts
    6,575

    Post

    <Coyote ! Sailing , huh>

    Thanks Sharkey. I was wondering if Bernouli was a factor. I've seen the newer rigid "wings" concept on a boat that look like an airplane wing, but I wasn't sure about the standard sails.

    My week in the Keys was nice, but I didn't get to sail. For those who are considering staying in a condo in Key West, the price of the room only SOUNDS like they're quoting a down payment on a mortgage. You don't get to keep the place. :confused:

    I enjoy the history of the wreckers in the Keys, and the old photos of the ships that sailed that area. There were a couple of wooden hulled vessels tied up that were really beautiful. You look at one of those ships that sailed the Atlantic hundreds of years ago and think what kind of men they must have been.
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Park City, Ut
    Posts
    26

    Post

    A couple other points on lift being converted to forward motion on a sail boat are aspect ratio and the keel. The lift generated by the sail needs to be coverted to forward motion. On most boats, this is done by the keel or dagger boards. The boat wants to sideslip, but the keel forces the energy fore and aft. It's like squeezing a mellon seed between your fingers. Even though the pressure comes from the side, the seed will eventually shoot out forward as you squeeze it. Higher aspect ratio sails allow you to point higher, moving the apparent wind forward. This is important when sailing to an upwind mark, as it cuts distance sailed and increases distance made toward goal. However it is not the fastest point of sail. Hull length and displacement are critical in creating boat speed. Generally, the longer the water line, the more speed the hull is capable of. I don't remember the physics involved, but it becomes factors of smooth flow of water over the hull. Laminar seperation can slow the hull in light air, as the hull begins to drag, caught in it's own wake. At speed, laminar seperation is healthy as the disturbed water doesn't have a chance to grab the boat and slow it.

    Driving hard to weather with a good crew is a blast, but for me, being at the helm at midnight, spinaker flying and the crew all asleep while the cabin wench fetches me a beer.. now thats heaven.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Farmington, New Mexico
    Posts
    6,575

    Post

    <while the cabin wench fetches me a beer..>

    If I even suggested that my cabin wench fetch me something I'd soon learn the meaning of the term "keel hauled"....
    Nobody ruins my day without my permission, and I refuse to grant it...

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