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  1. #21
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    Jun 2005
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    Greensboro, N.C.
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    I don't envy the europeans. The reason it is that way is gasoline there was about the same price for a litre as ours was for a gallon.

  2. #22
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    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hancock, NH
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    Hillside: Unfortunately, there have been some studies that have shown that the yield from current oil crops results in a situation where there isn't enough arable land in the US to supply bio-diesel for all automotive applications.

    I beleive that, but just think what a 50% reduction would do to our dependance on foreign oil. If we looked at all the alternative energies, and actually got some relief from our governement, we could make a difference. The new energy bill that was passed is almost a joke. We are not pushing alternatives enough. As long as their is big oil in the big house we probably won't.

  3. #23
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    Jun 2005
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    Greensboro, N.C.
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    If a bullfrog......... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

  4. #24
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    Jun 2005
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    Greensboro, N.C.
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    The big 3 and the oil companies buy any and all inventions that save more than a hundred yards per gallon, reduce car theft, or doesn't break easily.
    Then they bury them deeper than the deepest oil well in Texas.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Inver Grove, MN
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    NHbees,

    I don't disagree with you at all.

    We as a country should back off the idea of sending people to Mars, as exciting as that may seem, and put all that research power into new energy alternatives. I expect we could solve much of the problem within fifteen or twenty years.
    Linux - World domination through world cooperation

  6. #26
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    Jun 2005
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    Greensboro, N.C.
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  7. #27
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    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    Hillside....... If you are looking for a single replacement for fossil fuels....... there isn't one.

    It will take all of them. Kinda like IPM.

    And we can go to Mars, and solve the energy issue.

    With fossil fuel profits, coupled with control of our socio-economic and political systems, there has been little to zero reason to even look for alternatives.

    Only when we scream in pain from high prices will things change, as they have in europe.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Georgia mountains
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    923

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    Barry, you can spend 5K and get one of those little 40 gal units from, I believe, Nevada, or you can do like I do. I've got maybe 500 bucks in my set-up, make 250 gallons at a time, have 500 gallons of storage for waste veggie oil waiting to be made into diesel, and have 250 gallons of storage for the finished product. I make up a batch about every 3-4 weeks...basically when my on hand finished product goes under 50 gallons.

    If you start making your own, remember it is WAAAAY cleaner than reg diesel, and besides burning cleaner, it acts as a detergent in your fuel system...first 2-3 tankfuls, change all fuel filters EVERY tankful or you'll wind up sitting on the side of the road cussing me and thinking I screwed up your truck.

    70 cents a gal is WAAAAAY sweet...

    BubbaBob

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hancock, NH
    Posts
    85

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    Hillside,

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Hancock, NH
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    85

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    Hillside,

    I bet it could be done in about 5 years or less. Just think how we, as a country, ramped up for WWII. We need that same thinking here. We could do this if the government wanted this. Unfortunatley all the politicians are to "in bed" with big oil, and I mean both sides of the aisle!

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    hidalgo county texas
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    303

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    bubba what is your system that you use?

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    medesto,indiana,usa
    Posts
    257

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    I always liked buying the alcohol/gas blend in the winter as its real easy to get water in the gas tank and then it freezes and your stuck ...with the alcohol blend thats not a problem .....I never did notice any decrease in MPG and the engine runs cooler,less ping and wear and tear on the engine.This was driving an older high compression engine.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Georgia mountains
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    George, I use a 500 gallon tank (like you see on a large construction site for fueling heavy equipment) that I salvaged for free from a farmer's field for waste veggie oil storage until I make it into diesel. After I pick up WVO from restaraunts I rough filter it (just to get out chunks...it doesn't have to be finely filtered) as I transfer it into this tank. I have this plumbed into 2 150 gallon stainless steel cone bottom tanks that have pumps that, depending on valve setting, can either recirculate for mixing, or can transfer to finished holding tank. Those tanks, including chemical proof pumps, I got from an auction of a closing photo lab for $100/ea. The methoxide is mixed in a 55 gal plastic drum I got for $15.00. The finished product is washed with a $30.00 aquarium air pump and an aquarium bubble stone. After the bio-diesel is mixed, washed, and aged for two weeks it is pumped into a 250 gallon cube-tainer, for storage, I picked up for $40.00. The finished product is pumped into my truck via a 12 volt pump like you see on the aforementioned construction site tank. They typically cost in the $350.00 range, but I found one used for $150.00. That's $435.00, and I probably have another $50.00 or so in assorted piping, fittings, etc.

    BTW...I did some figuring, and with the rising cost of methanol, my costs are up to about a dollar a gallon. Shucks.

    BubbaBob

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Inver Grove, MN
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    BubbaBob,

    A guy I know tells me there are three problems that the backyard chemist can run into while making this stuff from waste oil. I was wondering how you handle them.

    Do you titrate for free fatty acids so you know exactly how much sodium methoxide to use or is there a rule of thumb that works well enough?

    Do you make any attempt to remove water from the batch before reacting it? Apparently, waste frying oils can have enough in them to cause a lot of soap formation that reduces yield and can gum things up.

    What do you do with the waste glycerine/soap crap that's left over? Apparently, depending on the oils that you use, this can be pretty ugly looking stuff. I would guess if it were further refined, it could be used for something.
    Linux - World domination through world cooperation

  15. #35
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    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Georgia mountains
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    I titerate about half the time....most of my WVO comes from fast food chains, and they are on a pretty strict oil change schedule, and have pretty consistant business, so the oil is usually "used up" about the same across the board...but yes, I titerate occasionally to establish and maintain a baseline to work from.

    I don't worry about water in the oil because I add, then remove, 20% water to the finished, but unwashed, product, to wash it with...any excess water is gotten rid of in the wash and there is not enough in the oil to start with to mess up the proportions.

    I recover the glycerine, clean it up, and use it in my soaps that I sell the tourists.

    Now if I could just find a way to easily and economically recover the unused=up methanol I'd get my costs under 50 cents a gallon.

    BubbaBob

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    The process is called trans-esterification. There loads of web sites out there. As BB says your oil supply determines how much you have to do to the product.

    Here's a site with a simple explanation of the process.

    http://pathtofreedom.com/pathproject...iodiesel.shtml

    Here's a ready built system for those with more money than time.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/FuelMeister-Pers...QQcmdZViewItem

    In warmer climates you can burn filtered waste veg. oil without treating it at all. It involves simple valve system, a seperate tank with heating element. You start up with regular diesel, switch to french fry power, and when close to your destination, switch back to diesel to fill the system with diesel again.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    "in warmer climates"

    Couldn't us cold weather types add some type of immersion heater in the tank to heat keep the fry oil from coagulating?

  18. #38
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    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Georgia mountains
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    Joel...you'd have to heat the tank AND the lines or it would gel between the tank and the injector pump/injectors.

    There are ready made systems, if you already have a two tank truck, that will allow you to do what Bruce suggested that cost around a thousand bucks...actually pretty cheap when you figure you save $1.75-2.50/gal, depending on where you live.

    I just prefer to make my own BD and not have to remember to switch tanks on start up and shut down...I have a bad case of CRS, and from what I hear, starting up after a WVO only shutdown can be a bit of a...er...female dog.

    BubbaBob

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    They have much cheaper systems that emply 6 gallon poly tanks that fit in your trunk with a imersed heater, heated lines, and heated filter. Last I checked they were like a bit less than $300.

    See "The Fry Guys" system here......

    http://www.green-trust.org/2000/biof...hn/default.htm

    Here's a way fancy kit for $795.00 for your 300TD.

    http://greasecar.com/product_detail.cfm?prodID=17

    But I'm with BB, making homebrew isn't rocket science and the product is superior.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    CRS yeah, me too. heating th lines would be pretty involved. I would love to start getting off the grid more. This seems like the obvious place to start. I'm just a dunce when it comes to this kind of stuff. I can fix anything on my vehicle on the road but this sounds complicated. We're in that cycle where as the income goes up the expenses seen to expand accordingly. The other benefit to me would be that extra fuel I could carry on bee migration without the fear of flamabiltity and being able to avoid that ghetto gas station in the middle of the night off I-95. My asociate went to diesel but he bought new. He won't burn bio because he thinks it will (and it may) void his warranty. I look at it and say I spend 600-800 a month on fuel, not including the 4 months I make SC trips. Is really going to cause any likely problems my warranty would effect?

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