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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Lineville Iowa
    Posts
    66

    Question

    i have been wondering lately
    which caliber( rifle) would shoot flatter
    and farther a 17. or a 25.06 ??
    i have been considering looking at a 25.06
    rifle ,as i have recently bought a 17.revolver
    what are the ballistics on a 25.06 with standard factory loads ,at what range does a 25.06 begin to drop ??
    Zeke

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    I guess I've never shot any factory loads in my .25-06 except the box that came with the gun, so I never paid attention to what the velocities are.

    But if you want a flat shooting varmit gun on a windy day, nothing in .17 caliber beats a long heavey bullet from the .25-06. A 120 grain bullet will buck the wind much better than a little .17 in any of the wildcats I know let alone the new .17 hornady.

    As to when a bullet starts to drop, basically if it's shot horizontally, they all drop immediately and at exactly the same rate. It's just that they travel further or less in that time depending on the velocity.

    But a bullet with more sectional density (weight for the frontal area) or, more to the point a better ballistic coeficient (which is related to the shape and the sectional density) will maintain it's velocity longer and so in very long ranges will shoot much flatter.

    The flattest shooting gun I've every owned is a 6.5 x 55 ackley improved with a 140 A-Max bullet going 3400 fps. Nothing I've handloaded in the .25-06 has ever come close to that. I think it's the free bore in the 6.5 that gives it that kind of velocity with acceptable pressures and the sectional density that helps it keep shooting flat at long ranges.

    The Sierra 117 gr .257 SBT has a ballistic coefficient of .437. The 75 grain .257 hp has a ballicstic coefficient of .240. The 140 gr .264 Matchking has a ballistic coefficiant of .546.

    A 120 grain bullet going 3400 is the best I've ever gotten in the .25-06. But that's 20 grains lighter bullet. A lot more felt recoil and only .007 more diameter to the bullet. It's close, but no cigar.

    Basically the .25-06 sighted in at dead on at 300 yards with a 117 grain BTSP going 3400 it's 8" low at 400 yards and 10" off from wind at 10 mph.

    A .223 Remington under the same conditions shooting a 55sp at 3200 would be 12" low and 20" off from the wind.

    A .220 swift with a 44 sp doing 3900 fps would be 7.5" low and 14.5" inches off rom the wind.

    How does this compare with the .17 Hornady? At what? 50 yards? No difference except cost and recoil. At 100 yards. Not much difference. At 200 yards. A little. At 400 yards we are now measuring the difference in feet. On a windy day even more difference.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hookstown PA USA
    Posts
    581

    Post

    Bullet drift and drop, the old question. Personally I don't think it matters a whole lot. How many folks can really make a 400 yard shot? I can on a good day but I miss more than I hit most times and it has nothing to do with anything but me. I shoot what I like and learn the trajectory and leave it at that.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    I think there is something to be said for always shooting the same gun with the same ammo. You do learn the trajectory and that's hard to do when you have a lot of different guns in a lot of different calibers. Of course, it's a bit impractical to shoot squirrels with your .25-06. Not much meat left, but you CAN use the same ammo for all big game, varmits and targets.

    I consider 400 yards a short shot from a bipod and a very long shot from the shoulder. But then I like to shoot Mt. Dew cans at a half a mile.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Exclamation

    >I consider 400 yards a short shot from a bipod and a very long shot from the shoulder. But then I like to shoot Mt. Dew cans at a half a mile.

    OH PLEASE! Give me a break!

    Your going to tell us you shoot a pop can almost nine hundred yards from a rickity bipod? Get real. Even the fifty cal club shoots an eighteen inch bull at one thaousand yards, and certainly not off a BIPOD!

    Perhaps if you spent as much time shooting as you do on this list, MAYBE you could occasionally hit that can, but not off a bipod, and not with your little Ackly.

    Geesh...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Central Square, NY, Oswego County
    Posts
    814

    Post

    NOW NOW Boys There is nothing like a win 300 mag! Now there is a rifle. !80 grains behind 76 grains of reloader 22. You know you shot something!
    Dan
    PS Squirrel, do a head shot. Saves the meat.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    >OH PLEASE! Give me a break!

    >Your going to tell us you shoot a pop can almost nine hundred yards from a rickity bipod?

    I haven't done it in a while, but yes, every shot if the wind isn't blowing.

    >Get real. Even the fifty cal club shoots an eighteen inch bull at one thaousand yards, and certainly not off a BIPOD!

    The 1000 yd benchrest record, last I heard, was just over 3 inches at 1000 yards. Why would anyone want to tolerate the recoil of a fifty to only get an 18 inch group? Most of the 1000 yard records are 6.5 300 Weatherby or 7mm 300 Weatherby.

    Never had a 1000 yard range to shoot so I couldn't say what it would shoot at 1000. But it's a Ruger M77V in .25-06 and it will put them all in the same hole at 100 yards. It will shoot a 2" group on a calm day at 880 yards. I never got the hang of sandbags, but if you brace forward up against the bipod it gets very steady. I would not call it rickety.

    >Perhaps if you spent as much time shooting as you do on this list, MAYBE you could occasionally hit that can, but not off a bipod, and not with your little Ackly.

    Never had the opportunity to try it with the 6.5, but in theory it should do much better. I was doing it with a 117 hornady in a .25-06 going 3200 fps. I get 140 A-max going 3400 in the 6.5. In reality I have no idea if the 6.5 can shoot as accurate, having never tried it on targets past 100 yards, but the 6.5 will also put them in the same hole at 100 yards.

    I'm pretty out of practice now. First, I don't have the time, and second there is no where I have available to shoot that kind of range here. When I was in Western Nebraska there were ranches where I could do this often. I typically would shoot up 400 rounds in an eight hour day of shooting.

    I can't wing shoot for anything, but if it's stationary target and I can see it with the naked eye, I can hit it with the .25-06.

    Do you have a 1000 yard range there? If so, let me practice up and I would LOVE to come down and shoot some 1000 yard shots. I'll gladly compete with the benchrest boys if I can use my bipod. I suppose I should buy a better scope for 1000 yards, though. My 3 x 9 Shepherd is a bit underpowered for 1000 yards.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    fall city Wa USA
    Posts
    112

    Post

    25.06.with a 60 gr BTSP drop is 9" + at 3800fps with a 200yd zero. The .17 with a 45gr jet is 6" +at 3800fps with a 200yd zero.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    >25.06.with a 60 gr BTSP drop is 9" + at 3800fps with a 200yd zero.

    The 117 or 120 grain will by far out shoot a 60 grain at any range past 300 yards.

    But I have found the 75 grain HP from Hornady to be AMAZINGLY accurate, even if it's not terribly effecient ballastically.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bridgewater VT. USA
    Posts
    238

    Cool

    nice shooting boys. Care to try sniper school? not only do you need to shoot well but have to be able to do it after running a mile.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,458

    Post

    I've tried to do it after WALKING a half a mile and you can't really do it right until your heart slows down.

    I don't mind sniping pop cans, or even varmits (the furry kind) but that's the limit of my interest in a sniping career.

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