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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    {to be tweaking at this early point would set too many variables in to play at a early stage of the game and IMO exclusionary in nature.}

    Agreed and another factor to consider if this is to succeed will be the limited number of queen breeders actually focusing on Ferals, an important part of any future successful queen breeding quest, which in the long run may have as much or more impact that geography.

    [size="1"][ January 01, 2007, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Joel ][/size]

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Post

    Well, we'll have to see about that. I'm in no way criticizing breeding from ferals, but since ferals were escapes at some time, breeding from survivors would be the same. I think it will be shown that there are more survivors than we think...we just gotta stop treating and allow...once again...the cream to rise to the top.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Western Pennsylvania
    Posts
    2,071

    Post

    For what it’s worth,

    Being a member of the association would NOT necessitate that you will be forced to accept each others stock. So why worry about this right now? Going off in this direction is duplicating what will be determined by consumer demand anyhow, and therefore not necessary. So what’s the big deal at this point if the breeder chooses to breed ferals, survivors or small cell etc.?

    At this stage, I would recommend to set only a few fundamental requirements, to mention a few, maybe:

    1) That stock and queens be kept and bred in the north
    2) What states are to be included

    Then on each individual members profile, you can list all these particulars we are all concerned about so we can shop around. I would recommend to let shopping around and consumer demand dictate the “special needs” and preferences of each northern beekeeper.

    A member profile questionnaire might include such questions as:

    a) Number of queens produced yearly.
    b) Method of queen rearing
    c) Number of drone source colonies and estimated feral drone contribution.
    d) A description of what best describes the race of bees you breed.
    e) The breed of stock obtained within the past 5 years.
    f) The origins of stock obtained within the past 5 years.
    g) A description of your yearly flow and percent of forage types.
    h) Location and contact information.
    I) the treatments used in the past 5 years
    J) Treatments currently being used

    You can see now how a member profile can allow more breeders to participate, and also the tools each member needs to shop around for “special needs”, eliminating the need to adopt a bunch of rules.

    By keeping rules to fundamentals, this allows and open door to those entering the field. Then the association can do what associations do best, ‘teach and provide a place to network’ If you adopt rules to restrict to breeds of bees, then IMO you have a “Breeders CLUB” and not an association.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Post

    >Being a member of the association would NOT necessitate that you will be forced to accept each others stock. So why worry about this right now? Going off in this direction is duplicating what will be determined by consumer demand anyhow, and therefore not necessary. So what’s the big deal at this point if the breeder chooses to breed ferals, survivors or small cell etc.?

    None at all. I want this to be a clearing house, not to support one agenda or another.

    >You can see now how a member profile can allow more breeders to participate, and also the tools each member needs to shop around for “special needs”, eliminating the need to adopt a bunch of rules.

    Yes Joe. Exactly what I would have said.

    >If you adopt rules to restrict to breeds of bees, then IMO you have a “Breeders CLUB” and not an association.
    If you adopt rules to restrict to breeds of bees, then IMO you have a “Breeders CLUB” and not an association.

    Yes, but there must be some rules...some of whifh you have already stated...bees must be bred and wintered in the north...in an attempt to:
    1. Give the consumer aclimatized northern grown stock...which they all want.
    2. Keep AHB out of the northern stock...hopefully.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Any recent thoughts on this?
    Dulcius ex asperis

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Post

    I have a list by state, and it's growing. I just got in one I've been waiting for...one of the state inspectors. Still looking for a few more. Specifically:

    I have nothing for NJ
    I have nothing for RI
    Need the address for NY, PA, CT, NJ apiculturists
    Could use more input from NH, NY, PA, CT

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Hanson, MA & Lebanon, ME
    Posts
    696

    Post

    FWIW, I'm a gardener. People, Places and Plants is a wonderful magazine from Maine, dedicated to New England gardening. They've included New York in that group. THey also have a Mid-Atlantic edition, that covers New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and south (the traditional Mid-Atlantic area).

    I'm very interested in this regional breeding association. I think it's timely, as I'd like to get northern bred bees for our new hives up in Maine.
    - Ann, a Gardening Beek

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Preston, CT
    Posts
    34

    Post

    I sent you a pm michael, in case you didn't already read it

    -Alan

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Whitefield, Maine USA
    Posts
    6,624

    Post

    Dulcius ex asperis

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Post

    Thanks George. I'm so lazy! I just knew you would send me a list.

  11. #31

    Post

    a very interesting thread!
    bob

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Arundel, Maine USA
    Posts
    1,207

    Default

    hows this association coming along???

    Update please...

    -K-

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Default

    I would be interested in how things are going. I would like to know the percieved or suggested benefits of such an association.

    What would be the benefit, both to consumer and breeder? I find northern breeders swamped with business, and myself, I turn down three times more business every year than I produce.

    My stock overwinters in the north, I use no treatments, I maintain a breeding stock augmented with a breeder from Glenn or other origins, and I feel any additional advertising would only increase the number of people I would just say "sorry" too.

    If your a northern breeder of any quality, and do just minimal advertising, throw in word of mouth business.....if you got bees not sold... your doing something wrong!

    So with that said, whats the goal, benefit, and plans of such an association?

    Please do not take my comments as ego, or somehow the wrong way. It would be a tough sell for me to commit time, effort, and other resources for another "association", knowing I can't ever produce enough to fill the orders coming in as it is.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default

    I would be interested in how things are going.

    Slowly. I put together a list of interested beekeepers, in the North East states, and started working on a web site. Then, I got too busy with my bees to finish. Guess things will be up and running for next year.


    >>I would like to know the percieved or suggested benefits of such an association.

    >>What would be the benefit, both to consumer and breeder? I find northern breeders swamped with business, and myself, I turn down three times more business every year than I produce.

    Well, for the consumer...a place to find the northern stock they want. I realize what you are saying, Bjorn. I can't raise enough queens to fill my orders, either. But, with a bit of education, and encouragement, we can bring other qualified beekeepers in on the project, and have them raise queens, too. As far as the producers goes...it would be a place for them to compare notes with each other, and find out what is working for some and what's not for others.



    My stock overwinters in the north, I use no treatments, I maintain a breeding stock augmented with a breeder from Glenn or other origins, and I feel any additional advertising would only increase the number of people I would just say "sorry" too.


    Please do not take my comments as ego, or somehow the wrong way.

    I understand what you are saying, and agree.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Standish, Maine USA
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Hi Michael,

    Yes, I like your ideas. I just started last year breeding queens/bees. I intended on keeping them for myself, but sold several queens to our local club members. I started with close to 30 virgin queens and weeded them out to about 17 keepers. I now have several club members hounding me for nucs to replace their dead-outs. I had no loses this past year. I was lucky from what it sounds like. I'd like to find out more about instrumental insemination. I've had problems finding affordable equipment. I took in Larry Connors talk in Maine a year ago when you were here. I enjoyed your talk and have put some of your ideas to use already. I'd like to keep in touch and be put on your email list of Q-Breeders. I'm still a side-liner/hobbyist but seem to have something started here in my neck of the woods. I retire from teaching in 4 years (33 years in) and maybe this will be my new job. Haha

    Erin Forbes spoke to me of your ideas. It all sounds great to me with what I have read and heard from Erin. We've seen several articles in Bee Culture and ABJ related to this type of independence and collaboration. In Maine, we have had mixed emotions about buying Southern Bees to winter here. And with mixed results. Mike you know how that is. Most of us have been saying that we need to buy at least Northern Queens for some time. We've tried buying from Mike at times. Your bees don't seem to last either, they sell fast.

    Keep me posted for upcoming events, swap meets, dialog, etc
    Larry Peiffer lpeiffer@sad6.k12.me.us

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    berkshire county MA
    Posts
    1,472

    Default interested as a club

    Mike, your talks down here were much appreciated and generated a lot of interested. Thanks for going the extra mile (literally)One club member is picking up 10 deeps tomorrow to turn into double nucs. When are your workshops scheduled? Tony

  17. #37

    Default

    Hi Larry - thanks for reviving this thread and putting it back onto our front burner!

    I was actually hoping that I might convince you to be our Maine delegate to the NEBBA - at least for 2008 - I think the Dumonts are pretty engaged with other issues this year and I haven't talked to Lincoln Sennett. I know you are busy but I think this is a very worthy and important cause - especially for us Mainers. We've got enough outside bees coming in via pollination contracts - the southern packages going to beginners just compound the problems.

    See you Monday!
    -E.
    Erin Forbes, EAS Master Beekeeper
    overlandhoney.com

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by berkshire bee View Post
    Mike, your talks down here were much appreciated and generated a lot of interested. Thanks for going the extra mile (literally)One club member is picking up 10 deeps tomorrow to turn into double nucs. When are your workshops scheduled? Tony
    Hey Tony. It was a pleasure talking to your group. Guess I lost track of the time. Started at 2:15, and the next time I looked at the clock, it was 7:05. Where was the guy with the 10 minute sign. :-)

    It's pretty exciting for me...all the folks starting a nuc wintering project, or considering giving queen rearing a go. Give it a few years, and I bet we see some real changes in beekeeping.

    The Vermont Beekeepers Workshops are as follows:

    Workshop Schedule for Summer 2008



    April 19 Unwrapping hives, first spring Inspection, Feeding light colonies, equalizing brood, winter kill diagnosis GIB GEIGER

    April 26 Package Bee Installation (North Yard Only) BILL MARES/RUSS ACETO

    May 10 - Reversing supers, making divides BILL MRAZ

    June 7 Adding supers, disease inspection, swarm control STEVE PARISE

    June 14 Queen rearing with Mike Palmer, Location Change: **Hudak Vegetable Farm, Route 7, St. Albans/Swanton** http://www.hudakfarm.com/HudakFarm-Map.html MIKE PALMER

    July 12 Re-queening and Making nucs to winter over MIKE PALMER

    July 26 VBA Summer Meeting Sharon Academy

    Aug. 9 - Harvesting honey, mite control techniques JAMES GABRIEL

    Sept. 13 - Preparing hives for winter RICK STONER/BILL MARES



    All workshops are on Saturday unless otherwise noted.



    Workshops are free and open to the public. We will open bee colonies, so you are encouraged to bring a veil and bee suit (if necessary).

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Perkasie, PA
    Posts
    1,998

    Default

    Hello. I consider myself a Mid-Adlantean but always enjoy reading Mr. Palmers wisdom. It though occurs to me that you may wish to define the goals of the breeding group. If you want simply to control the genetics of a select group of breeders, than you might define the organization in terms of drone source or queen mating techniques. If you wish to create a social network, use highways and zip-codes or belief systems. Just a thought.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Standish, Maine USA
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Hi Erin.

    Yes the southern packages are a gamble for beeks if they don't put the sugar syrup to them until they have a full two deeps. We've had poor seasons where a package after they get started can't make a go of it on their own. The beginners don't always understand that. Beginners don't always know when or why to feed. Then they winter with only 1/2 of their frig full. They die and don't know why.

    Larry

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