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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,918

    Post

    Doug,

    I ordered my queens from Strachen for last April 17. I got the mailer discussing the weather and the fact that they would be delayed. My queens were also mailed on April 24.

    Mine did really well. Just luck I suppose. I ordered 3 queens from Tim Arheit and got them this last August. They will have a harder time since one is in a single and two are in nucs for the winter. We will see what happens over the winter. I have queens ordered from Strachen again for next April 23rd.
    Bruce

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    beedeetee

    It makes me feel better to hear that queens from the same source and probably the same pick were ok. I'm still having a problem considering buying from the same breeder even though they are the most convienient for me.

    Last year I raised about seventy five of my own queens from my Itallians and only lost six from them, but winter is a long way from over. I only buy queens to try to keep my gene pool from getting too narrow. Had a lot of difficulty getting the starters to accept cells and only got two queens out of the Carnolians, but they are surviving so far and I plan to use them as drone breeders plus I will try to raise some from the lone original survivor. I only raise the queens for my own use and I worrey about inbreeding because I am relatively isolated. Because some of my locations are in climates that a lot of people don't even know exist in Calif, I look for good wintering stock which is why I picked the Carnies to try this year. I'm going to try some Russians next year, but so far the yellow bees are doing best in this area. Also going try to work my way into small cell but that will take a while and I need to keep my losses down until I get enough stock in SC to make a big switch.

    Probably the reason my own queens out performed the Carnies might have been that I culled and re-queened everything that wasn't up to par in the spring and did the same thing in the fall. I didn't do that with the Carnies, but nature seems to have done it for me.
    doug

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Berkey, OH, USA
    Posts
    1,486

    Post

    Doug
    I am like you, I have a little of this, a little of that, and see what works.

    The carnis are definitly different in more than color. I think there are probably some years that the carnis will do better and others that the Italians will do better. Although the term "Italian" is probably more descriptive of what it isn't than what it is. Maybe your term "yellow bees" is the best descriptor.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    I wish I could afford to use the requeening system to select out on bought queens, but there is no way I'm going to squish a 20 dollar queen without giving her a year to make it or break it. Twice a year requeening and constant evaluation speeds up the process and I ain't too young so I'm not looking at very many years to get where I want to go with them.
    doug

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Post

    {there is no way I'm going to squish a 20 dollar queen without giving}

    It took me quite a few years to be able to squish any queens, especially the $20.00 ones. Once I got into breaking down the nickels and dimes of our production,having reached the business stage, I realized a bad $20.00 queeen could cost me a couple hundred dollars in production in a good season and the loss of a hive of bees due to a poor winter cluster/stores, as well as reduced production in the 2nd season from a hive started from a package or nuc. I still hate squishing queens but have learned it is necessary for my survival as a business and the hives survival as a colony. Those poor performinhg $20.00 queens can easily cost several hundred dollars in the long run.

    [size="1"][ November 29, 2006, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Joel ][/size]

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    1,197

    Post

    I can agree with Joel re squishing queens. I've squished a breeder queen that cost $26 in the past. Her brood pattern was lousy and the queens I raised from her were not productive. It is a simple decision to make when you realize the damage that a bad queen can cause. The problems are just multiplied if you use a queen with bad genetics as a breeder.

    Fusion

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Loganville, GA
    Posts
    2,172

    Post

    I like what you say Bjorn!

    I understand your grief from the experience sierra. It's tough to go back when your good faith has been tainted from a bad experience. No matter what the reason.

    I hope you find the cure.

    I will pass on a name of a breeder on the great left coast that is closer than the east coast, if that matters to you that much. Dennis Lohman. He has carnies in CA. I mention him more because of the superior service I received from him this year! Aside from the absolutely awesome queens that I got from him. As much a bad experience you may have had, mine was equally opposite. He can be found on the suppliers list here at the source.

    But, I will say, I got the queens after the spring rush.

    No, he ain't my cuzzin!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Good Luck!!!!
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." Winston Churchill

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    I don't know how to get into the suppliers list. I have tried to run the term on search and get no results. I have also tried Dennis Lohman on search with no results.
    doug

  9. #29

    Post

    It is located at the home directory. Look for
    Bees and supplies at the left hand side of the page.

    http://www.beesource.com/suppliers/usbees.htm

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    El Dorado County, CA
    Posts
    605

    Post

    for the suppliers list:
    go to the home page. on the far left third down you should be able to select bees and suppliers.
    then it's u.s.a to california [img]smile.gif[/img]
    all that is gold does not glitter

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    Thanks. I'm going to give him a call.
    doug

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Lima, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    720

    Post

    You can also check out http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/bee_links-USA-90.phtml for queen suppliers. It's organized by breed. If I'm missing anyone let me know.

    -Tim

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    I called Dennis Lohman this morning. He has a minimum order this year of 25 queens, and I don't want to dedicate that much recourses to one breed of bees until I have a better feeling if I want to stick with them. I'll probably order them from Don in Georgia. I've so much good about his bees and If I get the best to start with I'm more likely to make the right decision as to what I want to stay with. Whatever I settle on will end up being primarily breeding stock to mix with local ferel strains.
    doug

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Western North Carolina
    Posts
    105

    Post

    < I've squished a breeder queen that cost $26 in the past.>
    Where can I find a $26 breeder???

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

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    Last Chapter.

    Went to the yard where I had kept the Carnies to feed. Temp 59. Cracked lid on the one remaining box. Cluster the size of a golf ball imobile on the comb and too weak to move to the honey surrounding them three inches away. The rest of the bees dead on the bottom. Took them home and warmed them up in an observation hive with some syrup. The queen is still alive and there are enough bees to feed her so I'll probably keep her going while I can just out of curiosity. No evidence of mites on the dead bees, either varroa or tracheal. No excess feces, no odor, just looks like starvation even though there is about thirty pounds of honey surrounding them.

    The only conclusion I can come to is that they just ran out of fertile eggs too late for supercedure and shut down too early. I don't understand why the bees didn't supercede unless the timing was just wrong. The two daughters from the one Carnie queen that did supercede are doing fine.

    Don't know why I'm wasting time with this last queen and her tiny retinue. Stubborn I guess. Maybe I spent too many years as a veterinarian trying to save the hopeless ones and can't break the habit.
    doug

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    El Dorado County, CA
    Posts
    605

    Post

    i had early spring packages from the valley this year that started out o.k. and then started to dwindle, supercede, swarm and die. thru inexperiance, wishful thinking and a busy late summer schedule i didn't requeen. i started with thirty and entered winter with fourteen. i had a good service experiance with the company and i asked for bees on the first of april and they were able to supply them when few could. i'll probably order with them again this year, but for the first of may not april.
    i "wasted" alot of time on tiny late swarms this year. they didn't even make it into winter but i sure enjoyed the experiance. i don't think time can heal a queen. if it's weak the hives a goner.
    all that is gold does not glitter

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    I'm not sure this queen is worth it even if I can save her. The bees are treating her like she isn't there which makes me think she is worn out.

    I think the reason I won't let go is it's like a gambling habit. You win a few hands and next thing you know you are forever certain that your next draw will be a royal flush.
    doug

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
    Posts
    6,080

    Post

    sierra,
    Not to try pinpointing blame or even find the answer, I will add the following.....

    I for one am highly allergic to MSG. I will have dibilitating migrains if I consume any amount of the stuff. But for many people, this stuff poses no reaction at all. It is in many food items.

    Some people will react and can even die from a whiff of odor from peanuts.

    These two examples are in relationship to humans. Many examples could be listed. With humans, they are able to analyze, ask questions, and through intelligence, we can pinpoint reactions and dangers to chemicals and substances that our bodies react too. Sometimes with deadly consequences.

    Now relate those type situations with bees. We can not ask questions, analyze the daily contacts, and pinpoint some triggers. Did this shipment come into contact with a package handlers perfume, discharge from a machinery in the handling or processing of the package, an unknown airborne compound in route to your place, a nieghbors use of some homemade concoction in the garden, or some other unknown danger?

    Bees for millions of years have been living in nature, with only what nature handed them in a natural setting. Now they are exposed to chemicals and compounds that they have never been in contact with. If humans can die from exposures to peanuts, and have dibilitating illnesses from anything from MSG to latex...what about bees? And now add perhaps unknown viruses and baterial issues and an ever changing world of new compounds, and who knows?

    I only throw this out, because I feel there is so much we don't know. And never will. I had one person this year have a bad batch of queens from me. This was the only person that had expressed any problems with queens. All six were not satisfactory. Others from this batch sent to other beekeepers were apparently fine.

    Did the bees come into contact with something enroute? Did they experience a short period of heat, enough to harm and not kill the queen yet effect viability in egg production?

    Do I think any of the above answer my own questions what happen to me? No really, but the slim line of possibility is still there. I have spoke with the beekeeper who recieved the queens, and after talking it over...I have no clue why this batch seemed to fail.

    Sometimes we have to just realize we deal with insects, and clear answers will never present itself.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    <Did the bees come into contact with something enroute? Did they experience a short period of heat, enough to harm and not kill the queen yet effect viability in egg production?>

    I picked them up at 4:00 pm at the breeder in Marysville, drove them 20 miles in an air conditioned car, marked them with the same numbered disks and glue I use for all my queens, and put them in nucs before 6:00 pm the same day.

    Of course I don't know what handling they had before I picked them up, and there is no way to know what could be in the environment around my bee yard or on the bees in the nuc, but I took healthy queens out of the nucs that all went on to build up strong colonies last summer.

    Just have to write this off as "experience" and like everything else in this world, try to learn whatever there is to be learned from it.
    doug

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada County, CA
    Posts
    1,083

    Post

    Last queen dead on the bottom of the OB hive. Cluster of healthy looking bees near the top of the hive with no queen visable looks about the same as when they were "thawed out". This is no big suprise since they didn't pay any attention to her when she was moving around the hive.

    The two daughter hives I did manage to get from these queens are thriving and in the area I have them there should be a eucalyptus flow in about a month. ONWARD TO NEXT YEAR.
    doug

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