North East Bees

[Trish's Treasures]

We have been noticing that there seems to be a trend for raising heartier queens and bees better suited for our colder NY climate. Thoughts on this and recommendations for a supplier?
Thanks

[Michael Bush]

Bjorn is in PA and from all accounts seems to have some good queens.

[naturebee]

The best way to get a queen better suited for your colder NY climate is to purchase a queen reared in your NY climate.

There are also many others on this list in the New England area you may want to check out.

http://www.beesource.com/suppliers/usbees.htm

[Dwight]

Trish, there seems to be two towns in NY named Cooperstown. One near Rouses point / Chazy area in eastern NY and one closer to Syracuse / western NY. I am not sure wich one you are from. But if you are from easten NY you are close to Vermont. I highly reccomend Queens produced by Kirk Webster (Champlain Valley Bees and Queens) in Middlebury Vermont or Mike Palmer in St. Albans Vermont.

[Kevin M]

I got my bees from LaGrants in Ware, Mass. Frank LaGrant has been selectively breeding his Italians for over 30 yrs. I figure if there doing well in colder Mass. where there breed they should do good on warmer L.I.N.Y....They seem to bee doing fine, i'll see how they winter over, hopefully i'll have a thriving hive come spring 2007. I'll be trying to get some feral bees locally
this spring as well....

[Trish's Treasures]

Dwight,
We would be the Central NY (Baseball Hall of Fame) one. Kirk's article in ABJ is what started me thinking about it. Have you had any of his queens? I believe he was raising Russians.

[Trish's Treasures]

Kevin,
What type does Mr. LaGrant raise?
Thanks

[Dwight]

Trish I purchased nucs and queens from Kirk this year and I am very pleased so far. I'll let you know in the spring how well they winter over.
I only treated two hives for mites this fall so that may have an effect on over wintering as well. I only treated those two as an experiment, (with mite away II) I am not an advocate of treating at all.

[Dwight]

BTW Trish, I am mistaken, there are not two Cooperstown's in NY. The one over here on the east side is "Coopersville". Sorry about the error.

[Kevin M]

Trish, LaGrants breeds and sells Italians....The link Joe provided above has LaGrant's contact info...

[Maine_Beekeeper]

Trish-
I'm with you on being interested in local queens.
The local queens by all accounts (and by simple logic) are better suited to the our area.
I tried to get queens from Michael Palmer (VT) this summer but he had none available for sale. (despite my getting on his list in April)
So I got some Russian NWC crossed from Oklahoma! (Velbert)
I also raised a few queens from my overwintered hives (Carniolan). Raising queens (in the summer) up here is EASY and super fun! We used the Miller method and our results were great for the first year. I now have 4 hives headed by my own queens and next year I'm definitely planning to do it again. Nothing like having a couple of spare nucs around when you need them. I've got two "spares" now in nucs that I'm going to try to overwinter (via Kirk Webster/Mike Palmers methods) and I'll be beside myself thrilled if they make it through and I've got two new hives in spring.
So yes, try to get local queens, but also try to raise your own!

[Jack Grimshaw]

Try Cold Country Queens
Bob Brachman (866) 204-3426 or (360) 928-3125 - (Russians - New York - Queens available June to August)
I've purchased a few queens from him and had good luck

See http://www.coldcountryqueens.com/

[tecumseh]

maine beekeeper sezs:
The local queens by all accounts (and by simple logic) are better suited to the our area.

tecumseh replies:
now someone that has two hives might be willing to make this type of allegation (without laughing), but I would suggest to you that your logic is extremely weak.

[George Fergusson]

Tecumseh, why should I want to put queens raised in Texas for example into my hives in Maine? Neglecting the possibility of getting africanized genes in the bargain, are not northern raised queens more suitable for northern locales than queens raised in southern states? Are you suggesting that there's no real difference, or that southern queens are superior?

There's been a lot of talk about the logic and benefits of keeping bees with locally raised queens acclimated to the local environment and geography and in tune with the local seasons and flora. You disagree with this?

[tecumseh]

george ferguson sezs:
Are you suggesting that there's no real difference, or that southern queens are superior?

tecumseh replies:
yes (see below remarks) and absolutely not...

although a good yankee queen raiser always know when to go back home (that is a joke for all you a bit too literal folks).

then george sezs:
Neglecting the possibility of getting africanized genes in the bargain

tecumseh replies:
let me see we've had ahb id'ed in New York State... so perhaps you should rethink or rephase this 'logic'.

first off I would highly disagree that bees (or any other species of animal) is likely to acclimate to a climate in the short time any individual has here on earth. which is not to suggest that their is not benefit to be gained by recombing genetic material in generation F2 and beyond with existing individuals that have survived in some particular niche.

I would suggest that an indiviudal beekeeper first needs to firgure out what he plans to do with the girls and then go from there in regards to choice of 'race' of bees. if you desired to overwinter bees in maine then the race I would chose would definitely not be the same race I would chose (as is my current choice) in rearing non migratory bees here in texas.

lastly (and likely most important) maine beekeeper has mentioned in passing the miller method. if he has not read miller's book(s) then I would most definitely suggest that he does. mr miller resided in southern florida and had a great reputation for raising exceptional queen... yet even a causual skimming of mr miller book should suggest to just about everyone that good queens was much more about technique than geography.

you george are a trades person by day so I will present this analogy to you...

casual observation about queen rearer....if you are looking to build a house you will need frame carpenter and trim carpenter to get the job done. it is my observation that a trim carpenter is much more aware of the detail of his work that a frame carpenter need be. this same difference is what most visiabily distinguishes an acceptable queen raiser from a honey producer. I would also suspect geroge that you have been doin' the trades long enough that when someone gets out of the truck you know whether he is a frame carpenter or a trim carpenter.

[BjornBee]

George, There are some who have made huge inroads in breeding a more hardier bee for over-wintering in the north. I think the introduction of Russian and Carni lines have facilitated breeding of bees more in line with something that beekeepers in the north should seek.

Kirk Webster probably has been the best known easterner who has been at it a long time. He is very realistic about the bees abilities, where we are in regards to where we are headed, and is very humble in his manner and approach. If at all possible, read his articles of northern queen rearing, over-wintering nucs, and other readings. I don't have all the article to list or download, but he had been in the bees mags over the years.

I think the northern beekeeper has been disadvantaged for many years due to winter loss, a shorter season, not being ably to capitalize on early sales, and other items. This is gradually changing in time.

The introdcution of russians and carni's, and the characteristics that make them a more suitable northern bee, better refined over-wintering nuc procedure, the AHB's spread in the south, and other factors all contribute to what I see is a great opportunity for northern breeders.

[Aspera]

Just adding to what Bjorn stated, Ontario has organized some breeders who have made inroads towards breeding better Northern queens. Some of them even got a headstart by importing Danish Buckfasts.

[size="1"][ October 29, 2006, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Aspera ][/size]